Kevin's Watch

I rented the first Avengers cartoon from Netflix, and it's really, really good - so good, in fact, that my 4 year old daughter is all about the Avengers now. I have the 2nd Avengers coming soon.

Anyone else seen these cartoons?

Do you mean Ultimate Avengers? If so, the first movie you have is based on the amazing 12-part Ultimates comic. Marvel has an "Ultimate" universe, with new tellings of the old characters. Some extremely interesting stuff!

The 2nd movie is not based on the 2nd 12-part series. Which isn't even finished yet.

The Ultimate Avengers II is out. It is not quite as good as the first. It involves the Black Panther, Vibranium, and the alinen/Nazis. The 1st one was good, though I don't like the characterization of Pym as a hothead.

But Pym IS a hothead! Has been since the late 60's, when he invented his 'Yellowjacket' personae.

Hothead is the wrong word ...Jackass is more like what he is in the Avengers action cartoons. He is more like Hawkeye, but is prtrayed a quite the Basta*d. He is nearly downright abusive to the Wasp.

sorry, I did mean the Ultimate Avengers. The Hulk and Iron Man are really the only characters that I'm familiar with. It seemed to me that Captain America was stronger in the cartoon that he was in the comics, as he was (for a moment anyways) standing toe-to-toe with the Hulk at one point. What really bothered me was when Hulk picked up Mjolnir and used it against Thor.....that just shouldn't happen.

A Gunslinger wrote:Hothead is the wrong word ...Jackass is more like what he is in the Avengers action cartoons. He is more like Hawkeye, but is prtrayed a quite the Basta*d. He is nearly downright abusive to the Wasp.

Let's not forget that he backhanded her several years ago, leading to their divorce. Obviously, he goes much farther in Ultimates. But hey, that's the idea. Take traits the characters originally had, and tweak them. Personally, I'm not really pleased with Cap's attitude in some spots. (Although I'm very pleased with his attitude toward Hank! ) The original Cap never had anything close to Ultimate Cap's willingness to risk others' lives.

Actually, Cap's attitude towards Hank in the Ultimates really bothered me.

Yeah? Why? Who ever had it coming more than Hank?

Let me think about it....by "it", I of course mean the decision to answer you, or merely delete your post.

Okay, it's like this. Beating up a guy for beating his wife is not going to help him understand that beating her is wrong; In fact, it's actually saying the opposite. Also, in the whole Marvel universe, there's 3 or 4 characters I count on to look for the best way to deal with circumstances, as opposed to 'just slugging it out', and Cap is one of those characters. I just think it was sloppy writing when a writer acts out his own desires through a character with little consideration of the character he's using.

Yeah, you have a point. But that's for the original Cap. It is in character for this Cap. This Cap throws a guy out of an airplane, hoping he survives in a way that will, if things work out as planned, put countless other lives in danger. If he wasn't that type of guy, I'd be on your side. But since he isn't that type of guy, I say beat the crap outta Hank. I don't know of any guy who beats his wife who doesn't understand it's wrong in the first place. He just does it anyway.

I knew I should have just deleted your post.

Don't mess with the bull, son. You'll just get the horns.

I found this from Wikipedia:

Rogers is also a highly skilled hand-to-hand combatant. In addition, his strength and recuperative abilities are remarkable (he was shown curling 540 lb in Ultimates 2 #4), although whether they are superhuman is not made clear. In the Ultimate Universe, Bruce Banner becomes the Hulk as a result of his experiments to recreate the Super-Soldier serum. Despite the Hulk being one of the strongest characters in the Ultimate Universe, Rogers takes on the Hulk in hand-to-hand combat, knocking him down momentarily. Rogers also defeats Henry Pym in melee combat while Pym is in his almost 60-foot tall Giant Man form, in retaliation for Pym having beaten the Wasp during a domestic dispute.

This explains (to me anyways) how Cap was able to fight Hulk (I mentioned this in an earlier post.)

I don't know exactly how Original Cap and Ultimate Cap match up. I assume pretty nearly the same. The way I explain it, Original Cap is always at the pinnacle of human strength. Meaning, while a mother may be able to lift a car off of her child, Cap can lift it any time he wants. He's performed any number of amazing feats of strength over the years. He also has reflexes far better than normal. I don't know how it was explained at one point, but humans have some sort of delay in our reflexes that are physiologically unavoidable. Cap does not. I've seen him catch a punch from around a corner thrown by none other than the supremely skilled Iron Fist.

When Daredevil was running down an alley, Cap ran past him in what we saw as a blur. DD's senses told him that Cap's heart was not beating faster than if he had been standing still.

In addition, Cap has tons of hand-to-hand experience.

It's no surprise Cap can knock Hulk off his feet. And he can likely avoid Hulk's blows for quite a while. Add a shield that can absorb or reflect darned near anything, and... But he can't hurt Hulk. And if Cap is a little off for an instant, one of those blows could take him out permanently.

Cap should be able to stand up to the Hulk. Cap is a supreme strategist. the Hulk is right above a mindless monster in this series. Cap should be able to saty a step ahead of the Hulk, but he can't take the Hulk out.

I watched the 2nd Ultimate Avengers movie this past week, and although it is good, it's not as good as the first.

Agreed. It seemed like it was rushed or something, The story was lame.

I'm told it's not from the second Ultimates 12-part series.

I've been sidelined by a real dislike for "saturday morning" quality animation. I have no doubt that some will argue that the Avengers cartoon is top notch in its production values but I have always had a problem with comics that have sub par art to the point that I can barely force myself to read them even if its only a guest penciler and the story is important. Same thing with animation. If the first few scenes look clumsy to me I can't help but tune out. I've toyed with watching the Avengers cartoon and have been tempted to rent the Avengers movie but no matter how much I like these characters I find it almost impossible to watch them in this medium. Avenger live action blockbuster motion picture? I'm there BIG TIME. Its going to take a lot for me to embrace the animated show. I still have several episodes of the animated Star Trek series I can't force myself to watch yet. Anyone that knows me knows that I must REALLY have issues with crummy animation to do that.

I know I know. I'm a huge fan of the Tick cartoon. Somehow that's different. If its suposed to be amusing I guess I'm more forgiving. I used to watch the Spiderman cartoon when it aired after The Tick but enjoyed it not so much. I'm sorry its not you its me.