Kevin's Watch

New to the site...and very pleased to see an active community discussing the best fantasy series of all time.

A friend is reading the First Chronicles for the first time, and discussions with him bring the memories rushing back. He really likes the Ravers, and I don't disagree. I'm curious how The Watch feels.

1. First a simple question, since I don't have the books handy for reference: Which Raver was Gibbon?

2. Speculation: Which Raver was the most powerful, and why?

3. Opinion: Who was your favorite Raver? (Corollary: am I crazy for asking this?)

Gibbon was samhadi Sheol. I believe he was Fleshharrower as well.

1 - samadhi Sheol was Gibbon, as well as Satansfist. It was also he who mastered the heart of Berek's liege lord, the King of Doriendor Corishev. moksha Jehannum was Fleshharrower.

2 - I always thought samadhi Sheol was presented as being more powerful - he certainly seemed a more public figure as the raver who mastered both Berek's king and the na'Mhoram. Also, I seem to remember him being refered to in The Power that Preserves as the Despiser's right-hand.

3 - Didn't really have a favourite as such.

Nah the Ravers are the characters you love to hate.......

Thanks, VS. I always get confused about which Raver took over whom. I guess it just wasn't an important detail to me, or at least not important enough to be worth remembering. My impression is that there are only minor, technical differences between the three Ravers. They have different names, but that's about it. Is there any real, meaningful difference?

VS, if samadhi Sheol was more powerful than his brothers, does that imply he was smarter or more cunning? Or was his "spirit" just naturally dominant over those of his brothers?

Since I view the Ravers as a) more or less interchangeable and b) evil rotten bastards, I'm afraid I can't say I have a "favorite" one. If I may adapt an Indiana Jones quote: "Ravers...I hate those guys!"

Matrixman wrote: Since I view the Ravers as a) more or less interchangeable and b) evil rotten bastards, I'm afraid I can't say I have a "favorite" one. If I may adapt an Indiana Jones quote: "Ravers...I hate those guys!"

That sums it up for me. I don't have even a partially nice thing to say, so I'll keep my mouth shut on this one.


Lyr, smouldering

I always pictured the three Raves as fighting amongst themselves for Foul's favor. I always thought they were more or less equal in power.

i agree. i never thought about who was more powerful or who was more favoured. They were just equally evil and malign manifestations of corruption and hate, with different memories and experiences.

Actually, since SRD said they sort of have a "hive mind", I presume that deciding which was more powerful would be largely meaningless. I always imagined the Ravers as mostly sharing one consciousness, which is simply "filtered" through the individual Raver to produce the illusion of a distinct mind. It's likely, however, that samadhi Sheol was given the task of controlling the na-Mhoram because he had already shown skill in doing so (as the ruler of Berek's king, for example).

Xar wrote:Actually, since SRD said they sort of have a "hive mind", I presume that deciding which was more powerful would be largely meaningless. I always imagined the Ravers as mostly sharing one consciousness, which is simply "filtered" through the individual Raver to produce the illusion of a distinct mind. It's likely, however, that samadhi Sheol was given the task of controlling the na-Mhoram because he had already shown skill in doing so (as the ruler of Berek's king, for example).

Agreed.

It is unusual, however, that the three should show such difference in prominence. Samadhi Sheol was the King, the Loremaster Mhoram touched, Satansfist, and the na-Mhoram. Moksha Jehannum was the one who appeared in Soaring Woodhelven, Fleshharrower, and (IIRC) the one who chased Covenant across the world as poisonous bees, spiders, eels, and snake-armed men. Turiya Herem was Kinslaughterer, and barely appeared otherwise (once again, IIRC).

It could be argued though that Moksha had the more importent of the jobs, infecting TC. Whereas Sheol just took power over gov't of the Land.

Which one took over Linden?

That was Jehannum.


He was always my favourite.

I think that turiya

Spoiler

was the one who took over Joan, either in the Second or Last Chronicles. I'm putting it in spoilers because I can't remember which it was.

Thanks for the comments, all. I had a feeling it was samadhi Sheol who possessed Gibbon, because I always thought of him as being the most powerful. That is interesting that others found them interchangeable, because I always felt that in many cases SRD put much thought into which did what. For example, Mhoram faced samadhi before TIW (when the latter "was daunted"), then again at the siege of Revelstone in TPTP. I don't think this was coincidence.

I think Linden is the most powerful Raver of all... I hate that woman!! wahahaha

SILENCE!
She is one of the best female characters ever!

Now I shall inflict the dancinf bananas upon you!

I agree with variol; I always thought samadhi seemed to get the more prestigious jobs. Turiya and Jehannum I saw as equivalent to each other, but Sheol definitely seemed to have the edge.

The only good raver is a rended raver!

(Nearly wrote 'rent' there might've changed the meaning somewhat!)

(Which one was rent then?)

Stonemaybe wrote:The only good raver is a rended raver!

(Nearly wrote 'rent' there might've changed the meaning somewhat!)

(Which one was rent then?)

Would have been samadhi since he was Gibbon.