Kevin's Watch

Was Covenant ever Cured of Leporasy, or was it just made dormant... I remember it as just being made dormant and that was why he had to do VSEs. If you'll look up leprosy in WebMD you'll find they have a cure for leprosy now. Found back in the late 80's apparently. I hadn't thought about this until MR. Milton Milquetoast brought it up in a Runes thread.

Funny you mention this. I was discussing the plot of TC with my wife (She hasnt read it) and talked about leprosy being incurable. She informed me it was (she is in Medicine), and had been since the 70's or 80s. its just a bacteria that causes it, much like a bacteria that causes ulcers. That being said, the cure wouldn't regenerate dead nerves or give feeling back, but you wouldnt get the purple spots and reinfection, the smell, etc.

I am sure this wasn't available when SRD Wrote the first two chrons. I do not think TC was cured, and now he is dead and consigned to the Land, I don't think it is an option.

I think TCs Leprosy was just in remission / dormant in the time between the first and second chrons.

Do you think that SRD knows about it know? I wonder if it all did turn out to be just a dream how this might affect the way he writes the final chronicles. Kind of a Soap ending but maybe TC wakes up in the hospital after having been in a comma for x amount of years, and Linden avery is his doctor, and while he was in comma she was giving him the cure, to where ultimately the battle in the land was his body attempting to defeat the desease within. And then TC's evil twin Berek comes in with a mustache... HAHAHA...

Nom vs. Vain wrote:Was Covenant ever Cured of Leporasy, or was it just made dormant...

Not sure I understand, since you don't specify which world.

In the Land he was cured, the first two times he went. His nerves regenerated, and there's no mention of the leprosy lying dormant when his nerves were restored.

In his real world, he was only in remission, of course. For there is no cure in that world.

...and how TC would have responded differently to the Land if he'd been summoned just a few years later, after they'd found a cure!

LENA: Unbeliever, the Hurtloam has cured you of your malady.
TC: Cool. Let's go and kick this Lord Foul's ass, then. Say...how about dinner this evening?

Wayfriend wrote:

Nom vs. Vain wrote:Was Covenant ever Cured of Leporasy, or was it just made dormant...

Not sure I understand, since you don't specify which world.

In the Land he was cured, the first two times he went. His nerves regenerated, and there's no mention of the leprosy lying dormant when his nerves were restored.

In his real world, he was only in remission, of course. For there is no cure in that world.

Actually I was only speaking of TC in the real world, Guess I should be more careful with my wording.

I do wonder what Covenant would have been like if he had been cured of leprosy in the interval between the First and Second Chroncicles.

Given how he always thought of himself as "the leper" he would have had a rough time of it I think.

iQuestor wrote:Funny you mention this. I was discussing the plot of TC with my wife (She hasnt read it) and talked about leprosy being incurable. She informed me it was (she is in Medicine), and had been since the 70's or 80s. its just a bacteria that causes it, much like a bacteria that causes ulcers. That being said, the cure wouldn't regenerate dead nerves or give feeling back, but you wouldnt get the purple spots and reinfection, the smell, etc.

I am sure this wasn't available when SRD Wrote the first two chrons. I do not think TC was cured, and now he is dead and consigned to the Land, I don't think it is an option.

I think TCs Leprosy was just in remission / dormant in the time between the first and second chrons.

actually, I heard from a nurse, that they now have a cure that allows a person to regenerate the nerves lost to leprosy. I guess that's pretty much why few people understand the story today

Paradox wrote

actually, I heard from a nurse, that they now have a cure that allows a person to regenerate the nerves lost to leprosy.

I do not think it is true -- we do not have anything that will fully regenerate dead or severed nerves; If we did, paralysis victimes from accidents (Like Chris reeves) would have a chance.

I always took it that when Lena gave Covenant hurtloam it healed his leprosy...physically...but Covenant would always be a leper...mentally.
He goes as far as to refuse it in Illearth War, but Mhoram heals him again after he is resummoned. And of course, hurtloam is dormant in TPTP so Covenant is never healed. Even the Healer perishes when it's almost as if Covenant's leprosy reaches for her.

She even groans at how bad the leprosy is and decides not to touch it. But I may be the only one, I thought Covenant's leprosy reached for the Healer.

On page 22 of The Wounded Land:

Dr Berenford says:
"After a few months his illness was arrested, and he came back to Haven Farm. Alone. That was not a good time for him. All his neighbors moved away. Some people in this fair town tried to force him to leave. He was in the Hospital a couple times, and the second time he was half dead"

I take this statement to mean the "couple" times Covenant was in the hospital refer to his first trip in which he collapses before the car ever hits him( LFB). And the obvious hospital stay he had in which he reacts badly to the Anti-Venin. ( TPTP)

"His disease was active again. We sent him back to the leprosarium."

"When he came home again, everything was different. He seemed to have recovered his sanity. For ten years now he's been stable."

So from this statement I take that after The First Chronicles, Covenant's leprosy was VERY active. Donaldson never tells us what specifically happend to TC at his second stay at the leprosarium ...at least I don't think he does.

Considering this, Covenant's leprosy was quite active between the 1st and 2nd Chrons, for a short time. Why did it all of a sudden become dormant ? Who knows ? Why was Covenant no longer impotent in the 2nd Chrons ? Perhaps it can attributed to TC's dangerously loose grip on the Wild Magic and his impotence was purely emotional up to that point.

Was hurtloam the sole catalyst in his loss of impotence in LFB ?
It surely was present in his system, but emotionally he had already begun to fall in love with The Land. After several re-reads it is present thematically. Covenant is just so damned stubborn he won't admit to himself how bad he wants to indulge in this new wonderful place he's encountered.

There was no hurtloam in The Land in the 2nd Chrons.

Covenant was a leper when it protected him, and later when it empowered him. The activity of his physical degeneration due to leprosy only seemed to increase during times of extreme depression.

Or, one could argue that over time TC's leprosy became more pronounced emotionally for him in The Land and less physically.

The loss of earthsight. Meaning his ability to see the world he had come love with eyes that he had previously. And "leprosy" attacks the eyes causing eventual blindness.

The knowledge that so many of his past actions no matter what his intentions have caused great damage to the things he loved. Meaning, uninentional bumps and bruises that have now festered and become a serious disease.

And finally, no control. Covenant had no control over having leprosy. And after being infected with "moral poison" he is no longer able to unleash Wild Magic without standing on the brink of shattering the arch.

Maybe I'm over-analyzing. This is just my opinion.

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do not think it is true -- we do not have anything that will fully regenerate dead or severed nerves; If we did, paralysis victimes from accidents (Like Chris reeves) would have a chance.

we're talking about leprosy, not spinal injuries. There are drugs used in treating leprosy today that enabled nerve regeneration. here's the report. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? ... t=Abstract

that article poses even more questions, was covenant experiencing this treatment in the real world when he was experiencing Hurtloam is his "dream"?

It also supports the time factor for why the Land would be going so much quicker in time, dreams take much less time in reality than they seam to take within the dream.

Ok,from this thread i did some EXTENSIVE research and found out that leprosy can be cured,halted, but the nerves will stay dead puppies.They can cure the disease,however,nerve regeneration is beyond our current medical knowledge.Sorry for not having links to this,1) I'm still figuring this thing the call the Net out.2) I was in a hurry. sorry guys..........

spacemonkey wrote:Ok,from this thread i did some EXTENSIVE research and found out that leprosy can be cured,halted, but the nerves will stay dead puppies.They can cure the disease,however,nerve regeneration is beyond our current medical knowledge.Sorry for not having links to this,1) I'm still figuring this thing the call the Net out.2) I was in a hurry. sorry guys..........

Several months ago, on a similar thread, I posted a few links to the current state of knowledge about the disease from the World Health Organization, if you're interested... As for nerve regeneration, that's not really a surprise: if our knowledge allowed us to regenerate nerves, we wouldn't just have cured leprosy, but a host of other conditions such as spinal cord injury. Trust me, I know - I'm a neurobiologist

Luke The Unbeliever wrote:"His disease was active again. We sent him back to the leprosarium."

"When he came home again, everything was different. He seemed to have recovered his sanity. For ten years now he's been stable."

So from this statement I take that after The First Chronicles, Covenant's leprosy was VERY active. Donaldson never tells us what specifically happend to TC at his second stay at the leprosarium ...at least I don't think he does.

My interpretation of this bit was that this was not so much about leprosy flaring up, but about Thomas wanting to restore his pre-Land discipline. His experiences in the Land pretty much screwed up the mental regimen required to take care of himself, which is what he had always feared would happen. So he went back to take a large dose of leprosy reality, get all those thoughts of being cured back out of his head, and get back to where he needed to be to take care of himself. Thomas recognized that he needed to be refreshed in the hopeless, immedicable reality of being a leper.

When LFB was written there was no cure, so it did not apply. When he came back to the real world he had it again. When he went back a second time he still had. I have always thought he had at the end of the second chrons.

Wayfriend wrote:

Luke The Unbeliever wrote:"His disease was active again. We sent him back to the leprosarium."

"When he came home again, everything was different. He seemed to have recovered his sanity. For ten years now he's been stable."

So from this statement I take that after The First Chronicles, Covenant's leprosy was VERY active. Donaldson never tells us what specifically happend to TC at his second stay at the leprosarium ...at least I don't think he does.

My interpretation of this bit was that this was not so much about leprosy flaring up, but about Thomas wanting to restore his pre-Land discipline. His experiences in the Land pretty much screwed up the mental regimen required to take care of himself, which is what he had always feared would happen. So he went back to take a large dose of leprosy reality, get all those thoughts of being cured back out of his head, and get back to where he needed to be to take care of himself. Thomas recognized that he needed to be refreshed in the hopeless, immedicable reality of being a leper.

I agree totally. Although I admit that I'd forgotten about his disciplines, much like he did. After a while we see Covenant not even bothering to do VSE. Also Covenant's reaction to Linden's story of the old beggar when they first meet is a good indication that Covenant has made peace enough to accept the Land whether it's real or not, but also cringes at the thought of it because he knows what The Land would do to 10 years of discipline....and I believe most of us know how that turned out.

I always thought he stopped doing his VSE because he became over time resigned to his fate.