Kevin's Watch

1: In any horror story he writes, something sexually deviant always happens.

And while I agree that it could be terrifying, does it have to be in every horror story????



2: The dude just cannot finish a book well.

It's his greatest flaw.

Ted Bloodstone wrote:
2: The dude just cannot finish a book well.

It's his greatest flaw.

Amen.

I totally agree.

Salem's Lot was his best though.
Everything else I was like.......wtf?...that's it?
The Stand was the best example of that for me.

I have read most of what King has written, and I must say that I think that you are generalizing way too much.

I can think of many examples of books that do not contain s. deviance (hard to define in any event... one man's deviance is another man's whimsical moment) and finish quite well indeed.

There ARe examples of weak endings...the Tommyknockers comes to mind, as does Dreamcatcher. But all in all I find King to be a crafty and entertaining yarn-spinner!

Okay, case in point, IT. This is a fantastic book cover to cover, with the sole exception of the ending. All of a sudden we have a turtle as the good guy??? Where's the kitten. Meow! Good grief.


Sexual deviation is rampant in that book. They gangbang the girl & one of the kids is offered a blowjob. That's sick man. Absolutely sick.

The shining has the dead old woman seducing the guy.

Dolores Claiborne is basically about child rape.

Jon Coffey is on death row for the rape & murder of two young girls.

In the Talisman, the kid has a few run-ins with sadistic pedophiles.

In the stand, the hot chick is saving her virginity for the bad guy, but she's supposed to have oral sex to presuade others to join the dark side.

Ted Bloodstone wrote:Okay, case in point, IT. This is a fantastic book cover to cover, with the sole exception of the ending. All of a sudden we have a turtle as the good guy??? Where's the kitten. Meow! Good grief.


Sexual deviation is rampant in that book. They gangbang the girl & one of the kids is offered a blowjob. That's sick man. Absolutely sick.

The shining has the dead old woman seducing the guy.

Dolores Claiborne is basically about child rape.

Jon Coffey is on death row for the rape & murder of two young girls.

In the Talisman, the kid has a few run-ins with sadistic pedophiles.

In the stand, the hot chick is saving her virginity for the bad guy, but she's supposed to have oral sex to presuade others to join the dark side.

I don't think King is overly gratuitous. Besides far worse happens in real life.

The worst ending to a King book I've read has to be Desperation. After such a chilling start it was a real let down.

i thought It had the worst ending. so cool for so long and then it ends up being a space spider?

Marvin wrote:I don't think King is overly gratuitous. Besides far worse happens in real life.

The worst ending to a King book I've read has to be Desperation. After such a chilling start it was a real let down.

I suppose that if we looked past the cleanable ceramic bowls of our toilets we would really know how disgusting human excrement truly is, it doesn't mean that we want/need to see it, smell it, hear about it, deal with it, or think about it though.


I agree about Desperation. Almost felt like he returned to "IT" & the "Space Spider". I mean, how hard would it be just to extend the mine-workers storyline & say that they brought artifacts over from China that were from 8000 BC or something. You don't have to explain it really. Just that the artifact was one of the original idols worshipped by mankind & that somehow it came to life from all the millions who adored it, or that it was trapping souls, and in any case it was severely pissed off that it's people were being mistreated & it was time for some revenge. I mean, is that so hard of an ending to contrive? I did it while I was writing, so 2mins... Sheesh. Anything but TAK![/i]

I certainly agree that his endings are sometimes weak. And there is a reasonable, although not excessive, amount of sex, some of it which might be called deviant, depending, as Guns points out, on your defintion thereof.

But not every story. Can think of many without too.

--A

Ok, well, it just seemed like so many that it was every. But maybe you are right.

Ted, it is in the substance of your arguments that keep me from reading most of King's work. I agree with all of your comments and have first hand experience from the books I've managed to force myself to read. In most cases (including the first Gunslinger book (I'm sure kids are run over by cars every day and experience the pain and horror of feeling their innards being crushed in the most graphic and sickening ways possible but I personally don't need to read every single icky detail of it. That’s a personal preference though.) I had a sick feeling in my stomach most of the time I read DT1 and its because of that I’m not looking to read anything else in the series. Must not be my thing. Sure shocking and sexually abhorrent things happen in real life but I don’t read fiction to get a graphic take on the horrors that I read in the newspaper. I prefer fiction that removes my thoughts from such troubling issues. I'm know there are people who view sex in the same terms that King's characters do but I don't and I have not had many acquaintances with people that do. Having said all that Stephen King is a talented, popular and prolific author who has a legion of diehard fans. Its perfectly alright with everyone concerned that I’m not one of them.

aTomic, good post.

I think that this is why Donaldson's Covenenant books work well when dealing with rape. For one thing, we aren't told about the giant size of Thomas Covenant's goods or let into much of the detail at all about the rape that occurred, whereas Stephen King would have told us alot more than what Donaldon describes.

But more importantly by far is that Donaldson expresses great remorse and long-lasting widespread effects of that rape. Stephen King uses it like the "SAW" movies which I haven't & will never see, and that's just to try to horrify you. Donaldson uses it as a reckless event, but not recklessly.

I think most of King's sexual "deviance" devices work well within the plot. The few that don't tend to be there for shock value. As King himself has admitted on many occasions, he goes first for terror, the "highest" of the scary emotions, then horror next, and if all else fails, he is not too proud to try for the gross-out.

I sort of understand the complaint that King's endings are weak, but for me, this usually only occurs because the rest of the book is so gosh-darn wonderful that ANY ending would be a let-down.

The two things I would say I hate about King's writing are:

One: his tendency to over-write some great ideas - I thought The Tommyknockers and Insomnia had brilliant potential, but he excessively padded them with at least two hundred more pages than the stories needed.

Two: his obsession in the mid-nineties with the "woman as victim" plot. I enjoyed Gerald's Game, Delores Claiborne, and Rose Madder, but come on! All three of these books were written within a very short time-frame - get over it, King.

I'm hoping Lisey's Story isn't another of these - I just started it today, so too soon to tell yet.

I hate that King doesn't set more stories in New Hampshire.

and that he never did the Salem's Lot sequel.

Ted Bloodstone wrote:Okay, case in point, IT. This is a fantastic book cover to cover, with the sole exception of the ending. All of a sudden we have a turtle as the good guy??? Where's the kitten. Meow! Good grief.


Sexual deviation is rampant in that book. They gangbang the girl & one of the kids is offered a blowjob. That's sick man. Absolutely sick.

The shining has the dead old woman seducing the guy.

Dolores Claiborne is basically about child rape.

Jon Coffey is on death row for the rape & murder of two young girls.

In the Talisman, the kid has a few run-ins with sadistic pedophiles.

In the stand, the hot chick is saving her virginity for the bad guy, but she's supposed to have oral sex to presuade others to join the dark side.

Is this were fiction meets morality ?

I don't think I've read a SK (or a Donaldson) book where he condones such actions, and often the initiators come to a sticky end (nice pun, eh?)

I doubt most readers would condone such actions either. The question is (as raised by others here) does it add to the tapestry of the story he is telling ?

King writes about people that we all know. there are many truly horrible people out there. I work with them every week. and they ain't all inmates.

That's for sure.

And horror comes in all shapes and sizes.

--A

from rabid dogs to misunderstood teens.

i will say there are a bit too many writers and teachers in the novels.

I don't like his references to the Cthulhu mythos.

Loremaster wrote:I don't like his references to the Cthulhu mythos.

Whats that ???


(ignorant comment from the colonies)

I always wondered if King's weaker endings weren't:

1) done at the last minute because he was told to wrap it up quickly by his publishers or

2) wrapped up quickly by SK himself because he had little care for the ending compared to the scare leading up to it. In fact, I sometimes speculate that he makes the endings ludicrous/lame on purpose just to make us feel sheepish for having being scared at all by the first 675 pages.

His verbose meta-writing seems to discount this latter theory, though, since he'd have bludgeoned us to death with it in every afterword if he'd done it on purpose. He's no Piers Anthony, but he do like to talk about his authrin'.

DW