Kevin's Watch

A lot of people have expressed, and I with them, that they would like Thomas to be a main character in the Third (Last) Chronicles. However, I ask myself what role could he play which would make him a main character? I cannot see any roles of important if he fights for the Land. He's dead, therefore, cannot touch anything. I am sorry, but frankly any attemp to give him life again or physical substance would be, put nicely, very bad and lame. I don't exactly picture Donaldson writing about Thomas floating after Linden all day.
The only way in which I think that Thomas could be a main character is by going over to the foul side of the force, because I cannot think of any other way in which this character would be nesseracy, in any sense, as a main character.
I am open to suggestions and ways any of you can make Thomas as vital in the Third Chronicles as he was in the First and Second.

youre right; i would have a hard time with Covenant actually being brought back to life. however, if there is a way this could happen and still be a believable, engrossing story, Donaldson is the man to do it. as for Covenant's role in the third chronicles, i havent the foggiest of ideas...at least none that i feel are worth mentioning. in any case, im having a hard time being patient and waiting to this to come. when i heard about a third chronicles...instant rapture, it was great.

Well, the law of death has been broken and certain parts of the land have been filled with ghosts. As a piece of The Arch of Time, Covenant--though dead--probably does have some power. I don't think he'll be a viewpoint character--maybe for parts of the series--but even if he's not the focus, he can still be the central figure of The Last Chronicles.

you bring up a point that i have been wondering for a while..do we know for sure that the law of death is still broken and ineffective? i personally would have assumed, though assumption is often a big mistake, that with the remaking of the Staff of Law in WGW, the laws would be remade and put back into effect. i could be way off, but i was wondering if anyone has a definite answer to whether the law of death will still be broken after the new SOL was made?

I personally assumed that all Law's were restored when i first read WGW, but Donaldson seems to have stated otherwise.

I had a thought when I read the title of this topic - Since the topic yesterday about what I think will happen, i've been wracking my brains thinking of something that could happen that Foul could corrupt once he came back, and I thought of something at last:

Perhaps the people of the Land, taught by Pitchwife, Gossamer, Sunder, Hollian and all the other survivers of the Second Chronicles knew all about Covenant and his power. Over the hundreds of years, this could become a kind of legend in the Land, and small manipulations could have people worshipping Covenant... And that's where Foul can plant his seeds of Corruption, the same as he did when he turned the High Lord into the Na-Mhoram.

As for Covenant himself, I envision a point where Linden will meet with Covenant's ghost, and I forsee an argument about what Linden believes about how to win...

I like suprizes so I really don't want 2 speculate at all. But I do think it would b interesting if Linden's adopted autistic child found a way to come w/her to the Land and could somehow "channel" Covenant's thoughts...

It's so hard to even guess what could happen - there are so many (mostly unseen) ways that Donaldson could go with it.

Picture this. You just finished reading the first trilogy for the first time. You know that there's a second trilogy written, but you know nothing about it (not even the titles of the books, since "The Wounded Land" kinda gives a pretty good hint). How would you have imagined the second chronicles to unfold?

I would have been surprised that there even was a second trilogy, since Covenant seemed to be able to blast Foul pretty good at the end of the first one. He still had some issues to work out - like needing a trigger to access the wild magic. But that could have been easily worked out if he came back. And Foul was pretty darn powerful with the Illearth Stone. How hard would he be to beat with wild magic if he didn't have the Stone?

And who would have ever expected Covenant to bring someone along in the second trilogy?

But unexpected things happened. The fight in the second trilogy wasn't as much to defeat Foul as it was to save the Land. And the problem of Covenant walking up to Foul and blasting him was solved with the venom. He couldn't fight Foul that way in the end, because he would bring down Time.

But my point in all this rambling is that I trust Donaldson to give us an exciting, unexpected, and "un lame" story in the third chrons, just like he did in the second.

So. What would WE have of Covenant if WE were writing the book? Hmmm... How about this (going down the dark path). The First and Pitchwife bury Covenant's body - but the cavewights dig it up and add it to their pile of bones. They eventually find the power to raise something, and it's a combination of Drool, Covenant, and all the other things they've been throwing on that pile for thousands of years. Let's see Linden blast the Land's new bane, when it wears the face of her lover.

Covenant's body could also have been taken by the giants to Andelain, along with the Staff of Law. There he could have been restored in a manner similar to Sunder and Hollian. Or maybe he remains a ghost, and floats around behind people giving advice. But this brings scarey images to mind - Covenant (The Great Gadzoo) floating around above Sunder (Fred) and Hollian (Wilma) all the time? *shivers* Linden better bring a fly swatter with her. heh heh.

Besides - who wants to take advice from a dead guy? I mean - if his advice is so darn good, how come he's DEAD? Huh? Huh? You want me to listen to, and follow the instructions of, some guy who's last great idea was to walk up to the bad guy, give him his gun, and ask him to shoot him in the chest?!? Come on!

I'm with Danlo, I don't like to speculate as to how the Third Chrons is going to unfold.

TC will have to play some kind of role in them though or why else would they be called The Third (or Last ) Chronicles of Thomas Covenant?

is it possible that LA & TC could fite foul in 2 different realms, the realm of the living and the realm of the dead. & perhaps foul needs LA child 4 some reason, which only TC can discover. or perhaps as many have sed, TC will bcome evil, but will think he is still good. Imagine him & LA fightin it out, 1 good & 1 bad but thinkin that thery r good. that would b wierd. & SRD prolly wouldnt tell u which 1 was in the right eirther.

People always like to refer back to the "You Are the White
Gold" speech that Mhoram made to Covenant.

Maybe Foul will attempt to use Covenant to gain possession
of the Wild Magic without the white gold ring... maybe he'll
hold Covenant prisoner or use him as a power source or a
shield ... something that Linden can't fight or destroy because
it would destroy the Arch of Time.

Reading _The Wounded Land_ again, I find myself both liking
and disliking Linden more than I did earlier. Truthfully, Linden
feels like a "Mary Sue" character to me ...

On the other hand, knowing about her past, I'm more
sympathetic to her this time around ....

Infelice wrote:I'm with Danlo, I don't like to speculate as to how the Third Chrons is going to unfold.

TC will have to play some kind of role in them though or why else would they be called The Third (or Last ) Chronicles of Thomas Covenant?

Concisely put!

If he's not evil, then he'll only be a small character that appears in a 3 or 4 scenes.

KaosArcana wrote

Maybe Foul will attempt to use Covenant to gain possession
of the Wild Magic without the white gold ring... maybe he'll
hold Covenant prisoner or use him as a power source or a
shield ... something that Linden can't fight or destroy because
it would destroy the Arch of Time.

That idea is really interesting, never thought of it myself. (Read my topic on Covenant being the bad guy). It wouldn't destroy the Arch of Time, because if Linden fought Covenant, she would make him stronger, and she can't use the SoL because it was create by the earth, and therefore cannot destroy it.

Don't have my books on hand, but I'm pretty sure Linden did use the staff of law... Also pretty sure it was TC who destroyed said Staff in the first place with the white gold, of which Linden is now in possession.

Caer Sylvanus, that isn't what I meant, I was replying to this message:

KaosArcana wrote
Maybe Foul will attempt to use Covenant to gain possession
of the Wild Magic without the white gold ring... maybe he'll
hold Covenant prisoner or use him as a power source or a
shield ... something that Linden can't fight or destroy because
it would destroy the Arch of Time.

Then I said
It wouldn't destroy the Arch of Time, because if Linden fought Covenant, she would make him stronger, and she can't use the SoL because it was create by the earth, and therefore cannot destroy it.

Caer Sylvanus wrote
"Don't have my books on hand, but I'm pretty sure Linden did use the staff of law... Also pretty sure it was TC who destroyed said Staff in the first place with the white gold, of which Linden is now in possession."

KaosArcana said:

Linden couldn't try to fight Thomas because if she did the AoT would be destroyed

. When I said she couldn't use the SoL, what I meant was that Linden couldn't use the SoL against Thomas, nor could she use it to destroy the earth. She can't fight him with the white gold because look at what happened when Foul tried to use it to destroy his existance. Thomas went from being a dead spirit to Pure Wild Magic. I think that Thomas is like the Elohim, they are Earthpower incarnate, he is Wild Magic incarnate. The reason she can't use the SoL to destory the AoT is bacause its from the Earth. The Staff is from the inside, If the SoL was able to do such a thing, then their would be other powers in the earth that could do the same (Remember the Illearth Stone was more powerful the the SoL) so Foul could've used them to destroy the AoT, or gotten Elena to do it when she was serving him in TPTP. Linden can't use the White Gold to hurt Thomas, neither could she use the SoL.

Think about it, the Earthpower couldn't be used against Foul, because the Elohim said its not within their Wurd, also because he comes from the outside, and only a power and person from the outside could really beat him, so I assume that this applies to Thomas as well.

Ahh. I see now what you were saying.

First Mark:

KaosArcana said: Quote:
Linden couldn't try to fight Thomas because if she did the AoT would be destroyed
. When I said she couldn't use the SoL, what I meant was that Linden couldn't use the SoL against Thomas, nor could she use it to destroy the earth. She can't fight him with the white gold because look at what happened when Foul tried to use it to destroy his existance. Thomas went from being a dead spirit to Pure Wild Magic. I think that Thomas is like the Elohim, they are Earthpower incarnate, he is Wild Magic incarnate. The reason she can't use the SoL to destory the AoT is bacause its from the Earth. The Staff is from the inside, If the SoL was able to do such a thing, then their would be other powers in the earth that could do the same (Remember the Illearth Stone was more powerful the the SoL) so Foul could've used them to destroy the AoT, or gotten Elena to do it when she was serving him in TPTP. Linden can't use the White Gold to hurt Thomas, neither could she use the SoL.

I'm thinking that if Linden kept tossing wild magic at Covenant the power
unleashed would eventually be enough to destroy the Arch of Time.
Remember when Covenant was about to do battle with the Wyrm of
the World's End-- the sheer unleashed by the two of them would have
destroyed the Earth (and the Arch) ....

I think something needs to be done to limit Linden's access to power,
though, or we'll wind up with a story of her just blasting everything
that's thrown against her ...

I don't think so, because Foul got weaker the more he used the White Gold against Thomas. Linden isn't more powerful than Foul when it comes to using power; because the Despiser has deep lore in those things.

What ever role TC plays, I hope it is a small but still signifigant one. If I have to listen to him moan about all his struggles for one more page.....

Not that it wasn't absolutely awe inspiring and more than anyone could ever dream of in terms of charactor growth. But I believe his plight has served the best purpose it possibly could and the time has come to move on to bigger and better unfoldings of human woe and triumph.

I will welcome the fresh points of view that other charactors will bring. Of coarse, SRD can't really call it the Third Chronicles of Thomas Covenant if it is almost completely lacking TC. Can he?

I would like to see TC have some type of closure between him and his son. Maybe a meeting in Andelain.