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Your Flesh Is Mine
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:43 am
by Nerdanel
I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the "You Are Mine" poem is very likely incomplete as written. Covenant missed the beginning.
SRD wrote:At first, it was too loud to be understood. It retorted in his ears like the crushing of boulders. He inhaled it with every failing breath; it echoed along the conflagration in his chest. but gradually it became clear. It uttered words as heavy as stones.
I've tried to reconstruct the missing beginning using the principles of symmetry. We know Foul is big on perfection. The known fragment follows for clarity and comparison.
Trivia: the cube was considered the perfect shape by the Old Testament Jews. This poem holds a similar structure.
Lord Foul reconstruction wrote:Your flesh is mine -
There is no escape from my damnation,
Is no respite from my damnation.
You are mine
Lord Foul wrote:Your will is mine -
You have no hope of life without me,
Have no life or hope without me.
All is mine.
Your heart is mine -
There is no love or peace within you,
Is no peace or love within you.
All is mine.
Your soul is mine -
You cannot dream of your salvation,
Cannot plead for your salvation.
You are mine.
I'm reasonably sure about the first and fourth lines of the flesh stanza but not at all of the middle lines.
I think the flesh stanza should go mirror the soul stanza, like the will and heart stanzas mirror each other. Without me/within you - your salvation/?. "My damnation" is very possible, but sounds a bit off, as all the other lines are have positive words combined with negation. I think it should probably be "my" + a three-syllable word though, but cannot think of a version that makes more sense than "damnation", so I used that.
The first stanza also mirrors the third stanza, with the middle lines beginning with "There" instead of "You" and using the same connecting word twice, "from" and "or" respectively. I used the pair escape/respite to mirror the non-rhyming but similar-sounding dream/plead.
Interestingly, the unheard first stanza is the only one that could actually been said to have come true, with the venom in Covenant and all. Though, the second and third lines could really be understood as referring to Lord Foul himself and not Covenant...
EDIT - fixed a stupid typo in the first quote.
EDIT 2 - ...and an even more stupid late night error in the explanatory text.
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:49 am
by Waddley
That's really good, Nerdanel. I never would have thought of recreating the stanza, but it makes sense completely.
Why "flesh" instead of "body"?
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:53 am
by Nerdanel
Will, heart, soul, and flesh all have one syllable each. Body has two.
I also thought of "body" first but had to reject it as it didn't really fit.
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:57 am
by Waddley
Gotcha. Thanks.
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:28 am
by duchess of malfi
Very well done.
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:57 am
by matrixman
Excellent analysis, Nerdanel. I had never thought about this before - how Lord Foul's words to Covenant began.
I'm just sorry I have nothing to add...poetry is not my strong point.
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:33 pm
by Nerdanel
Thank you for your kind words. I don't think my reconstruction is perfect, though, particularly now that I have slept over a night.
1) The repetition of "is" is slightly dodgy. My guess is that the middle lines of every stanza should use a different verb, but I can't think of a better version.
2) The pair escape/respite, which is supposed to contrast with dream/plead, has twice too many syllables, throwing off the entire poem's syllable scheme. I think this is even more dodgy, but again I can't think of a better version, although surely there should be two one-syllable words that sound remotely similar and fit into the poem.
This in addition to the comments in the original post.
Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:59 pm
by dlbpharmd
I agree, excellent analysis Nerdanel! You're stanza makes complete sense in this context, especially when one realizes that this is Foul's version of the Summoning Song from First Chronicles ("Be true, Unbeliever.")
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:18 pm
by Counselor
I was just breezing through the site and its forums, as I am wont to do, and had forgotten how great that poem was. Maybe my favorite in the series. Nerdanel, your idea is excellent, and your post-post thoughts got me thinking about it. How about this?
Your flesh is mine
You shall not escape from my damnation
Cannot flee from my damnation
You are mine
Maintains the cadence and symmetry between 1 and 4, as you suggested, and still conveys the certainty of Covenant's plight. I wish I would have thought of it.
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 7:21 pm
by Counselor
Now that I look at it again, maybe "your" is better than "my." Matches the last stanza better.
Your flesh is mine
You shall not escape from your damnation
Cannot flee from your damnation
You are mine
Whaddya think?
Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:32 pm
by The Dark Overlord
Sounds good
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:14 pm
by stonemaybe
Nerdanel wrote:
I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the "You Are Mine" poem is very likely incomplete as written. Covenant missed the beginning.
SRD wrote:
At first, it was too loud to be understood. It retorted in his ears like the crushing of boulders. He inhaled it with every failing breath; it echoed along the conflagration in his chest. but gradually it became clear. It uttered words as heavy as stones.
I've tried to reconstruct the missing beginning using the principles of symmetry. We know Foul is big on perfection. The known fragment follows for clarity and comparison.
Trivia: the cube was considered the perfect shape by the Old Testament Jews. This poem holds a similar structure.
Lord Foul reconstruction wrote:
Your flesh is mine -
There is no escape from my damnation,
Is no respite from my damnation.
You are mine
Lord Foul wrote:
Your will is mine -
You have no hope of life without me,
Have no life or hope without me.
All is mine.
Your heart is mine -
There is no love or peace within you,
Is no peace or love within you.
All is mine.
Your soul is mine -
You cannot dream of your salvation,
Cannot plead for your salvation.
You are mine.
I'm reasonably sure about the first and fourth lines of the flesh stanza but not at all of the middle lines.
I think the flesh stanza should go mirror the soul stanza, like the will and heart stanzas mirror each other. Without me/within you - your salvation/?. "My damnation" is very possible, but sounds a bit off, as all the other lines are have positive words combined with negation. I think it should probably be "my" + a three-syllable word though, but cannot think of a version that makes more sense than "damnation", so I used that.
The first stanza also mirrors the third stanza, with the middle lines beginning with "There" instead of "You" and using the same connecting word twice, "from" and "or" respectively. I used the pair escape/respite to mirror the non-rhyming but similar-sounding dream/plead.
Interestingly, the unheard first stanza is the only one that could actually been said to have come true, with the venom in Covenant and all. Though, the second and third lines could really be understood as referring to Lord Foul himself and not Covenant...
Love it! Great post.
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:10 pm
by A Gunslinger
Someone should show it to SRD and see what he says. bet he'd think it's groovy.
Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:13 pm
by iQuestor
Someone should show it to SRD and see what he says. bet he'd think it's groovy.
SRD goes out of his way to say he doesn't want to be approached with any writings based on his work; he doesn't like the idea of fan fic at all, although he doesnt mind people doing it for the right reasons where appropriate credit is given:
In the GI was writ:
David Brown: Dear Mr Donaldson,
I was just wondering if like many successful authors who have created such a popular world, you get legions of devoted fans sending you fan fiction?
And if you do, is it something that you read or do you find it cringeworthingly embarrassing?
SRD Replies:
No one sends me fan fiction. In part, this is because I protect my privacy (in other words, people don't know *how* to send me fan fiction); and in part, it's because I've often announced in no uncertain terms that I won't *read* fan fiction if it is sent to me. I have no real objection to fan fiction (unless it involves a copyright violation). But I'm not willing to confuse my imagination by filling it with other people's ideas.
Also, I suspect that there's something, well, *strict* about my stories which tends to inhibit people from spinning off their own ideas. I can't be sure of that, of course: it's just an intuitive perception.
(03/17/2006)
Of course, it might be different since this is a poem, who knows.
I enjoyed the poem myself.
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:05 pm
by Nerdanel
I don't view my reconstruction as fan fiction or fan poetry. I see it more like detective work. When you get down to it, the poem is extremely regular so that the three known stanzas in large part determine the fourth. The escape/respite pair is the main exception.
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:14 pm
by iQuestor
I agree - it is certainly a different thing than writing a story or poem based on a work, thats for sure.