Runes, Part 1 Chapter 11: Hints

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Runes, Part 1 Chapter 11: Hints

Post by danlo »

Geology/Biology lesson?
Actually I have many solidified thoughts about this chapter. Since I am an emergency sub I'm not going to make any disclaimers but I may go off on a tirade or two. I don't know what the technical term for this art is; "descriptive geologist", "naturalist", or "literary landscapist", please help me here folks... Let's see fauna (of which there is not much here) means animals and insects and stuff right? So I guess I would be right by saying how mezmerised I was by Donaldson's depiction of the flora of the mountianous area of the Land between Mithil's Plunge and the Verge of Wandering (the title of the next chapt., btw). Of course I'll have to back this up by a quote, the next time I see SRD in person I'll have to ask him if he makes a number of personal trips into the mountians to capture such scenes,
Ahead of her, the slope dropped towards a place of torn and jagged boulders, great blocks and monoliths, where two of the lower mountians appeared to have collided with each other. Studying the granite chaos, she feared that the Ramen would ask her to clamber there. However, they reassured her by turning so that their path angled more towards the east. As they rounded the mountianside beyond the tumbled monoliths, she saw that they were headed toward an arete between massive cliffs, a ridge like a saddle. It had been formed by tremendous rockfalls which had echoed each other off the higher cliffs and crashed together in the intervening valley, filling all of the space between the mountianside with rubble.
At this point Linden is pretty much a mess, she's in incredible pain trying to get her "Land-legs", and trying to keep up with the group and even though her Health-Sense has returned she's fairly deaf and dumb to what's going on around her. Indeed, even the author seems to be making fun of her by the sheer description of the terrain, as if to say, "Look at this! This is the history of the rock itself! The wars, the embraces, the catastrophes over millenium that have formed things just as they are! This is the initial nexus of what Anele talks about!" To me it's almost a subtle analogy/prologue of the complete history of the Land. I'd use an archiac term like a 'masculine' description, but to be PC let's just say 'rough'. At other times the rendering of the terrian is quite soft or 'feminine', and don't worry I'll toss another quote up now so that we don't go into a lenghty discussion of the Tao and comparisons to Le Guin,
Beyond the arete, a cluster of mountians leaned away from each other to unfurl a wide valley in their midst: a rich grass land, verdant as a meadow in springtime, fed by a network of delicate streams and small pools. In the afternoon light, the whole floor of the valley had a lush hue, an aspect of luxuriance, far deeper than the green sprouting of buds and grass around Mithil Stonedown; and the streams and pools seemed to catch the sun like liquid diamonds. It may have been a place out of time, sheltered from winter by the surrounding peaks: an instance of late spring or summer made possible by an abundance of water and sunshine amid the lingering cold of the mountians.
This is what stands out to me most in this chapter-this is some amazing writing! And very nice seasonal references that recall the beginnings of all three books in the first trilogy. OK, I set this up intentionally to lash out at some critics who believe that Runes doesn't the same 'feel' as the prior books. But look at it this way: we're in completely uncharted territory here, before we were led to believe that the edges of the Southron Wastes, were just that. There is untold beauty in the desert, so to speak, and the scope of the Land is (like The One Tree) again broadened-for me, the more I discover unknown parts of this world, the happier I am.

Agreed, we may not be going directly into the heads and depths of the characters, but can't that come about in time? Look at all the references in this chapter to what we already know...Ramen yearning to go back to the Plains of Ra, Bloodguard and Elohim history, suspicions of the Ranyhyn's plight, aliantha, aminabhavin the list goes on and on...Even though it's a new place, and we seem to be wandering right off the face of the earth, we're definately back in the Land. And it's a strange and unforgiving place too...Kevin's Watch smashing to the ground made it so right away...Anele as a multi-fauceted avatar for the voices of the stone, Foul and who knows what else? Too weird. The lifelong animosity between the Ramen and the Bloodguard/Masters due to treatment of the Ranyhyn. Too cold.

So after that how to I get back to the gist of Hints? You've got me. OK I'll take up the question of why Linden appears so weak when she first appears. The Staff of Law is gone, right? Kevin's Dirt has obsucred things and Health-Sense is quite different than Earth-Sight, isn't it? It's 10 years later and she's also dying, which wasn't the case in The Wounded Land. Covenant could barely put one foot in front of the other when he first entered the Land. However, in this chapter Linden is determined, for Jeremiah's sake, to find her strenght and does once the party tops the arete and her Health-Sense finds aliantha. Simply by consuming treasure-berries she passes another test of the Ramen, the first being sought by kresh, but that isn't enough: she must also go through a formal challenge.

The Ramen aren't innocent either...throughout the chapter Linden, Stave and even Liand gather suspicions by what Hami and Ramen are not telling them especially concerning the ur-vile's aide and the plight of the Ranyhyn.

Now is where I'm really going to need you help and discussion (dammit! I swore I wasn't going to make a disclaimer! :x). Actually, even though it seems like I'm getting tired and whimping out, which I'm not, it might be fun to throw out a bunch of terms (we really don't know anything about) and a story or two and get your opinions. Ok, abandoning the strategy of going over things paragraph by paragraph one of the most important scenes (actually the two most important scenes) involves Anele weirding out again and appearing to be listening to the rock but something, someone has possesed him again, no it's not Foul, some bizarre He who cannot be named starts talking about; the Appointed, Durance, the skurj, the Elohim and Kastenessen. OK discuss, no just kidding. This is the first of the three important hints we receive here.

So class, exactly what do we remember about the story of Kastenessen and who exactly is possesing Anele now? Are the Elohim all over this? Earthpower incarnate, able to assume forms undetected... If you recall earlier in the book it was said that at one time an Elohim had visited Mithil Stonedown saying odd things like, "beware the halfhand". To make a long story really short the Elohim had to make an Appointed (like Findail and the Collosus) to plug a fiery crack at the north of the world to prevent the destruction of the earth. But Kastenessen had rebelled and harmed a mortal woman in the name of love which led to him being stuffed in the crack by the Elohim and the woman's history leading to the creation of merewives (see: The One Tree).

Obviously this raises more questions than hints: First, again, why "'ware the halfhand"--Covenant's dead and what threat could Jeremiah pose? Warped by Foul? Huh? What is this skurj? And what does Durance mean? Shouldn't Kastenessen, like the Collosus, have passed? So is he still alive and has espaced the crack? Does Durance mean how long he had to be stuck there-and if he's escaped, "...he has broken the Durance", is skurj created from the fires unleashed on the earth? If Foul swears (yeah like we're going to believe him) he had nothing to do with Kevin's Dirt is the Dirt an aspect of this, or an aspect of the caesures? Essentially all this tells us nothing, or does it?

The next 'hint' is very simple and is probably the most poignant sentence in the chapter, from Anele's possesions and the kresh attack it is clear that Linden does not know how many enemies she has...

The third hint, or series of hints again comes from poor, possesed Anele. As the party makes camp in the structured Ramen environment in the grass Linden searches for any help she can get, sure there are things the Ramen and even Stave are holding back from her but how can they help her discover her enemies and fight them? Where is help to come from at all?
When at last she lifted her head from her hands, she saw Anele standing on the grass beyond the edge of the clearing. A kind of fever shone from his blind face, and his whole body seemed to concentrate towards her.
He was beckoning as though he had heard her prayers and wished to answer them.
Briefly Linden considered ignoring him. Surely he would only confuse her further? Even from this distance, however, she could see that his madness had entered a new phase, one unfamiliar to her. He was in the grip of an intention so acute that it made him frantic.
Anele grasps Linden and sheds tears of joy. Thomas Covenant is speaking through him, though he can barely maintain possesion over the mysterious "He". "He" is stronger than Covenant and the Law binds him in many ways." A joyous reunion is foreshortened by immediacy,
"You're in serious trouble here." Already her beloved's voice sounded like tatters, scraps of presence. "Serious trouble." She was losing him again. "You need the ring. But be careful with it." His death had nearly undone her. "It feeds the caesures."
Covenant!
She could not bear to lose him a second time.
"Linden," he urged at the limit of himself, "find me. I can't help you unless you find me."
Anele shoves her away, and runs off Linden persues him and he turns around, possesed again, and nearly sears her face off. Stave kicks him so hard he almost kills him.

The worst cliche you can make in doing a dissection is calling the chapter "pivotal", but it's painfully obvious here. Linden does gain strenght, she does, at least, get a tiny inkling of what's going on, Covenant's appearance is mind-numbing...and if you don't believe we're back in the Land yet, then...
Last edited by danlo on Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Thanks for a good dissection, danlo. Your comments about Donaldson's descriptions of the landscape are good ones. I have to wonder if, because as readers there are so many questions, and we're so eager to get to a part where we get some Covenant, that we don't pay as much attention to these kinds of descriptive passages as we should. Then later we whine because we they're "not there".

"Hints". What a perplexing title. Who's getting the hints, Linden, the reader? Stave? I'm tempted to say, Donaldson probably intends all of the above. But I may be reading to much into it.
danlo wrote:Even though it's a new place, and we seem to be wandering right off the face of the earth, we're definately back in the Land.
This passage reminded me strongly of Covenant and Elena's journey into the mountains. The same attention to the details of the shapes of the mountains and the paths.
danlo wrote:The Ramen aren't innocent either...throughout the chapter Linden, Stave and even Liand gather suspicions by what Hami and Ramen are not telling them especially concerning the ur-vile's aide and the plight of the Ranyhyn.
And let's not forget:
"As for the timeliness of our aid," she answered like a shrug, "it is no great wonder. We were drawn to the region of the Mithil valley by the fall of Kevin's Watch. I have said that we scout the borders of the Land. Such destruction could not escape our notice."
How so, Ms Ramen? Do you have eyes that can see such power at a distance? Or can you somehow perceive ceasures and their consequences? Your answer, as they say, leaves much unanswered.
danlo wrote:This is the first of the three important hints we receive here.
I found more than three...

Here's one that comes a bit earlier.
When she had entered Covenant years ago to free him from the imposed stasis of the Elohim, his blankness had overcome her, and for a time she had been as lost as Jeremiah.
Interesting -- could Jeremiah's mental state be imposed by the Elohim?

Anyway, I'll put this up, just to help us in our analysis, and maybe to refer back to later.
Anele? Frowning in concern, she limped toward him.

He had not collapsed there; was not unconscious. Rather her health-sense detected a sharpened awareness, as if his nerves had been tuned to a higher pitch. His aura had taken on a hue of concentration, lucid and helpless.

Automatically she assumed that he was listening to the stone; that he had jammed his face against it in order to hear its whispering.

When she reached his side, however, she saw that she was wrong. He was not listening: he was cowering. Fear boiled off him like steam. He had forced his head between those two stones as though they might stop his ears.

Earthpower throbbed in him like the labor of a stricken heart.

"Anele, what's wrong?" She had asked him that too often. He needed more than her concerned incomprehension. "What do you hear?"

The stones he had chosen were comparatively smooth. Wind and water and time had worn away their roughness until they resembled the floor of his gaol in Mithil Stonedown; the surface of Kevin's Watch.

"Be gone." Rock muffled his voice. "Anele does not speak. He is Comm anded. He obeys. Anele obeys."

Commanded? By the stones? Linden resisted an impulse to grab at the threadbare fabric of his tunic; tug him out of his protective covert. Confusion and sunburn pulsed in her temples.

"Anele," she repeated as calmly as she could, "what's wrong? Talk to me."

"Be gone," he croaked again. "Anele demands. He begs. He is commanded. He must not speak."

"Christ on a crutch," Linden muttered at him. "You're making me crazy." She could not restrain herself: the ascent of the ridge had stretched more than her physical limitations. "I'm the best friend you've ever had. The Ramen want to help you. Liand wants to help you. Even Stave," God damn it, "doesn't want to see you in pain.

"Come out of there and talk to me."

While she lacked the courage to challenge his plight, she had no one to blame but herself for her frustration.

"Do you not feel it?" protested the old man. "Are you not commanded? Anele must not speak."

Liand, Stave, and the Ramen gathered behind Linden, drawn by Anele's strangeness and her intensity. She paid them no heed.

"No," she countered, "I don't feel it. The only power here is yours." In her spent state, she might have surrendered to any coercive force. "Make sense. Why in God's name would the stones command you not to speak?"

So suddenly that she fell back in surprise, Anele jerked his head up, flung himself around to face her. The rush of returning blood stained his cheeks crimson, stark as stigmata. His white eyes glistened with fury.

"The stones do not command it, fool! This is the true rock of the Earth, too honest to be impugned. It only remembers, and holds fast."

Then he sagged. He may have felt Linden's shock, although he could not see it. With every word, his anger seemed to fray and drop away, leaving him defenseless.

"Do you not understand?" His voice shook. "It holds."

"Then who?" she returned quickly, trying to catch him while he could still answer.

"Who commands you?"

What secrets had the stones told him?

Urgently she searched him for hints of the Despiser's presence - and found none.

"He does not wish it." Now each word cost Anele more effort, greater distress. Compulsion seemed to accumulate against him. "He commands. If Anele did not obey, he would whisper what this rock" - he flapped his arms, apparently indicating the cliffs as well as the ridge - "cries out. He would tell of the Appointed Durance, the skurj, the Elohim.

"He would name Kastenessen -"

There Anele's resistance crumbled. Whimpering, he leaped to his feet and fled over the rocks as though he were being whipped away from utterance.

Linden hung her head. Oh, Anele. Was there no end to his sufferings?
The first thing that strikes me is, weirdly, a bit of comedy. Anele is command not to speak of certain things, and there he is, speaking of those things anyhow. Whoever commands Anele, certainly does not hold him well.

But notice that Anele is referring to himself in the third person. That's a clue. This is not lucent Anele, this is crazy Anele. The comments about the stone tie in to this reminder - like Anele was on Kevin's Watch, like he was in Mithil Stonedown.

And, in the third person, "He" could refer to Anele himself as well as anyone else.

He is burning with Earthpower. Why is he exerting his power? To break free? To defend himself? This is why I wonder if "he" could be referring to himself.

As Daffy says: Pronoun Troubles.
danlo wrote:The next 'hint' is very simple and is probably the most poignant sentence in the chapter, from Anele's possesions and the kresh attack it is clear that Linden does not know how many enemies she has...
Here's a hint I found that comes before your third one.
Then she added, "You've already accepted Anele. And I think Liand will agree with me." She did not wait for his nod: she trusted him to follow her example. "As for Stave-" She shrugged. "I get the impression that he knows more about what's going on here than I do. He'll probably welcome a challenge."

In fact, however, the Haruchai appeared to have lost interest in the situation. He stood with his arms relaxed at his sides and his gaze fixed on the mountains as if he had decided to await the arrival of someone or something more worthy of his attention.
As if he had decided to await the arrival of someone. Donaldson's simile's always cut like a knife, don't they? Cut, as in, to the heart of the matter.
Spoiler
I see Stave's Haruchai mind-speech working here, as if another Haruchai has come into his range. We find out who it is in the next chapter. Let us remember to check; I am sure Stave will not be surprised.
danlo wrote:Anele shoves her away, and runs off Linden persues him and he turns around, possesed again, and nearly sears her face off.
And I think there is another hint there. Consider this:
Anele's old flesh had become fire; reified flame. Without transition, he roared with heat like scoria. His skin should have been charred from his bones by the burning ferocity of the being within him.
Anyone remember this? Think back... back ...
In The Wounded Land was wrote:"Graveler," Covenant said, "touch him with your staff."

Around him, the Stonedownors rose to their feet.

"For what purpose?" the Graveler asked uncertainly. "It is mere wood. It has no virtue to determine guilt or innocence."

Covenant clinched Marid in his gaze. "Do it."

Hesitantly, the Graveler obeyed.

As the tip of the staff neared him, Marid shied. But then a savage exaltation lit his face, and he remained still.

The staff touched his shoulder.

Instantly, the wood burst into red fire.
It takes a special kind of killer to leave a hot knife behind. Foul has plenty of that kind of help.

Here be a Raver.

[Last edit, promise.] Here is where I always begin to ask myself, was that really Covenant? Or a Raver-created imposter?

Because I cannot help but think that Covenant would never posess anyone, ever. If he did, he'd be going back on everything he ever avowed in the Second Chronicles. Unless, somehow, Anele wants this to happen.

But the Raver thing bothers me, too.
Tears streamed from his moonstone eyes, shocking her as sharply as the sound of that voice in his mouth. She had seen him weep often; but this was different. Until this moment, she had never seen him shed tears of sympathy.

Sympathy and pleasure.

"I didn't think I would ever see you again." He spoke quickly, almost babbling, as if he had too much to say, and too little time. "I wouldn't have believed it. But it fits. It's right. You're the only one who can do this."

Thomas Covenant's voice.

She knew it as well as she knew her own, and loved it more. Through his madness, Anele spoke Covenant's words to her in Covenant's voice.

Her lungs heaved for air and found none. Covenant, she panted, nearly fainting. Oh, my love. The sound of him struck the whole vale to stillness. In an instant, the Ramen and all their doings had ceased to exist; lapsed to dreaming. Stave and Liand occupied the clearing in some other world, a dimension of reality which no longer impinged on hers. Her beloved did not speak to them.

Anele embraced her, a hard clasp with all the strength of Covenant's heart. Then he held her at arm's length so that he could gaze at her blindly. His eyes were awash in yearning.

"Linden," he said, "listen to me," still hurrying. "I don't have time. There's so little I can tell you."

Covenant was dead, here and in the world they had once shared. She had spent ten years grieving for him. But this was the Land, and the Laws governing Life and Death had been broken.

She faced him mutely through her own tears, helpless to find words for her sorrow and rue. If she had opened her mouth, she would have sobbed like a child.

"The Law binds me in so many ways." Anele was Covenant's surrogate, his only voice. "If it didn't, it wouldn't be worth fighting for.

He opposes me. Here, like this, he's stronger than I am. Poor Anele can't hold me. I'm already fading."

As he said so, she saw that it was true. The old man remained palpable before her. His fingers gripped her shoulders urgently: in some other life, they might have hurt her. But within him another form of lunacy struggled against Covenant's presence. In spite of Covenant's desire, and Anele's rapt submission, a rabid force gathered loathing to expel her love.

He opposes me. The same he who had commanded Anele not to speak earlier? Or some other foe?

Anele's madness now did not resemble his near-sanity on the ridge.

"You're in trouble here." Already her beloved's voice sounded like tatters, scraps of presence. "Serious trouble." She was losing him again. "You need the ring. But be careful with it." His death had nearly undone her. "It feeds the caesures."

Covenant!

She could not bear to lose him a second time.

"Linden," he urged at the limit of himself, "find me. I can't help you unless you find me."
Pronoun trouble!

There's so little I can tell you - the Law binds me sounds like the admonition made by Mhoram in TWL: We may answer no questions. That is the Law. And Elena then said, As in the summoning of dead Kevin which broke the Law of Death, the answers of the Dead rebound upon the questioner. We will not harm you with our answers..

Okay. He cannot tell Linden anything. Except about ceasures?!?!

- - - - - - - - - - -

:?: This chapter crosses the half-way mark.
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Great dissection, Danlo!
"The Law binds me in so many ways." Anele was Covenant's surrogate, his only voice. "If it didn't, it wouldn't be worth fighting for. "
I thought this a significant statement by Covenant - indicating that in fact the Law is still intact.
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Re: Runes, Part 1 Chapter 11: Hints

Post by Tulizar »

I started my re-read of Runes a couple of weeks ago and just happened to finish this chapter last night. I haven't had a chance to read all of the dissections yet, but those I've read are incredible and have helped answer some of my questions!

I don't have much to offer, but here it goes.
danlo wrote:Anele shoves her away, and runs off Linden persues him and he turns around, possesed again, and nearly sears her face off. Stave kicks him so hard he almost kills him.
During this nasty possession we are reminded that despite Anele's battle for his sanity, he is one tough old man. SRD makes a point to remind the reader that Earthpower is keeping this man alive:
Earthpower wrapped the old man like a cocoon, however, and his fiery possessor could not harm him.


Wayfriend wrote: [Last edit, promise.] Here is where I always begin to ask myself, was that really Covenant? Or a Raver-created imposter?
Because I cannot help but think that Covenant would never posess anyone, ever. If he did, he'd be going back on everything he ever avowed in the Second Chronicles. Unless, somehow, Anele wants this to happen.
This seemed odd to me too because Covenant certainly was no fan of possession! Interesting point about the Raver. TC's conversation was pretty vague, so it could be easily attributed to anyone with the slightest knowledge of white gold and Earthpower--including a Raver.

Despite his abhorrence of possession, I still believe it truly was Covenant. He comes across almost as desperate. He needs to contact Linden at any cost. Anele was the only receptive body through which he could contact Linden and, thanks to his Earthpower, seems hardy enough to bounce back. Sort of.


I like that Liand is still adapting to his newfound health-sense:
I know nothing of these Ramen. Nor am I accustomed to the new life which fills my senses. Perhaps it misleads me. Yet--" He paused again, then said more strongly, "Yet I do not believe that any great harm has befallen the Ranyhyn. The Ramen would not countenance it. They would have died, all of them to prevent it."


Although described as exhilerated, excited and joyous about his new awareness in the previous chapter, Liand now seems to be digging a little deeper with his healt-sense. Although he offers a disclaimer about how he now perceives things, he boldly asserts how he feels about the Ramen and the Ranyhyn. Possibly an obvious observation, but he believes it might be more than that.
Proverbs for Paranoids #3.

If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
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Post by Relayer »

Great comments from all. I haven't read this chapter in a while, but I remember it striking me as interesting that SRD would even call it "Hints" - as you said, hints for who? And about what? Jeez!! Of course, SRD has a habit of his chapter titles having multiple meanings... when I re-read the 2nd chrons last year it seemed like there was another deeper interpretation for almost every chapter.

I think the term you're looking for is "geomorphologist" (a geologist who studies landforms) but I don't know what one would call writing about it.

On to the chapter:

I also get the feeling it was Covenant, that the situation has become so desperate that even he will risk the evil of possession in a case like this. He also must know that his possessing Anele will not last long, nor do any lasting harm.

What is Anele talking about up on the rocks? It's been discussed it at length elsewhere, no need to rehash it here, other than to say WTF :?: :!!!: :?: :!!!: :?: :!!!: :?: :!!!:

I also questioned Hami's statements about how they knew their aid was needed. Even without the occasional "Linden sensed they knew more" it just seemed too convenient.
Spoiler
Of course, we find out later that Esmer is also responsible for their being there.

But there's more, which I'll mention when we get to the appropriate chapters, which suggests the Ramen might know more, or have more abilities than we've come to expect.
When she had entered Covenant years ago to free him from the imposed stasis of the Elohim, his blankness had overcome her, and for a time she had been as lost as Jeremiah.
Interesting -- could Jeremiah's mental state be imposed by the Elohim?
That is interesting. At the time, I just saw it as a poetic comparison. But this is SRD after all :) I wonder what Linden would see if she could look at Jeremiah w/ her healthsense?
Anele is command not to speak of certain things, and there he is, speaking of those things anyhow. Whoever commands Anele, certainly does not hold him well.
I get the feeling that Anele is powerful enough to actually fight "him" off long enough to tell Linden as much as he does. And if he were to come back to himself, he'd probably be one of the most powerful beings we've ever seen. It's almost like he's a living, walking Staff of Law. And "My birthright" could have a deeper implication than simply the real Staff. It was his birthright to heal the Land, but he needed to find a different way to do it than Sunder and Hollian.
Shouldn't Kastenessen, like the Collosus, have passed? So is he still alive and has espaced the crack?
Since we're not sure how Appointment works, we can only speculate. But this raises another question: Could Findail break his Appointment? What would happen if he did? It's said of the Colossus that the elohim passed out of time and life, but Vain also told Findail "you will not die" ... hmmm :)
"History is a myth men have agreed upon." - Napoleon

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Relayer wrote:
When she had entered Covenant years ago to free him from the imposed stasis of the Elohim, his blankness had overcome her, and for a time she had been as lost as Jeremiah.
Interesting -- could Jeremiah's mental state be imposed by the Elohim?
That is interesting. At the time, I just saw it as a poetic comparison. But this is SRD after all :) I wonder what Linden would see if she could look at Jeremiah w/ her healthsense?
Ooooo... that's good.
Relayer wrote:It was his birthright to heal the Land, but he needed to find a different way to do it than Sunder and Hollian.
And, repeating myself, I wonder if Caer Caveral didn't have a hand in this, setting this up when the transformation happened, in order that the Earth would have some sort of super-Forestal, who would care for the Earth as a Forestal cares for the Forest. Who would, in turn, enable another transformation ...
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Post by Relayer »

Another of those loose ends that we didn't notice?

It's very possible that Caer-Caveral was involved and might have been able to transfer his Forestal's knowledge or being... he likely also had some knowledge of what would happen to an unborn child who went through Death.

He must've read Dune before the apartment fire :)
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Wayfriend wrote:Here be a Raver.
On the other hand, if it were a Raver, Linden would have recognized that immediately. (As she did in "I am content").

But I am not convinced that the burning skin doesn't point to a Raver, either.

Hmmm...
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Post by Relayer »

Wayfriend wrote:
Wayfriend wrote:Here be a Raver.
On the other hand, if it were a Raver, Linden would have recognized that immediately. (As she did in "I am content").

But I am not convinced that the burning skin doesn't point to a Raver, either.

Hmmm...
You may be on to something. But, as you say, Linden would recognize one. Unless they've changed their nature in some way...

I don't think this possessor is a Raver though, because while the Raver's touch could be like fire or acid, or could leave a hot knife, their being itself has not been seen as fire or hot the way this one is. Evil or wrong, but not radiating heat like magma.

I vote for either Kastenessen or skurj.
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Relayer wrote:I don't think this possessor is a Raver though, because while the Raver's touch could be like fire or acid, or could leave a hot knife, their being itself has not been seen as fire or hot the way this one is. Evil or wrong, but not radiating heat like magma.
Good point. (And good dissection danlo.) Yeah, that makes sense relayer...but I'm not convinced of either of the two options you you offer.

Certainly we (think) know that the skurj appear to be fiery beings of some sort, but I hadn't really thought of them as sentient...although, I suppose they could be similar to the je...je...jeh...you know, those mud people, except of fire.

As for Kastenessen, well, the elohim could be anything they wanted, so that's possible, but not convincing I think. OK, skurj is probably the best bet so far. :lol:

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Avatar wrote:Certainly we (think) know that the skurj appear to be fiery beings of some sort, but I hadn't really thought of them as sentient...
:!!!: Just had an Aha moment reading Av's reply. (actually it sounded more like "Oh Sh*t!!")

I realized that I agree that the skurj may not be sentient... at least they may not really have a purpose, similar to the arguleh. But what if one is possessed by a croyel?

The wandering Elohim has been warning people about them, and maybe Anele has mentioned them? But it's kind of been in passing, as if SRD is dropping a hint while Linden focuses on Kasty and other things...
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Post by wayfriend »

I have a half-baked notion that it is, somehow, Roger! But I cannot say why, other than that he must be about doing something somewhere, and that the only reason for all this pronoun trouble is to disguise someone we haven't met yet.

[edit - I said "half-baked". Heh. ]
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Maybe with yours plus mine we can come up w/ one fully baked idea :-)
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Relayer wrote:I realized that I agree that the skurj may not be sentient... at least they may not really have a purpose, similar to the arguleh.
Yeah, that's sorta what I thought of them as...firey arguleh. Good point about the croyel, but I don't think that that's the possessor. The croyel-ridden argule still didn't talk/plan/plot. I think it's limited by the intelligence of the host. Certainly Kasryn's croyel never did anything. *shrug*

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Avatar wrote:Yeah, that's sorta what I thought of them as...firey arguleh. Good point about the croyel, but I don't think that that's the possessor. The croyel-ridden argule still didn't talk/plan/plot. I think it's limited by the intelligence of the host. Certainly Kasryn's croyel never did anything. *shrug*
It certainly didn't talk, but it did seem to plot... at least to the extent that the arguleh were organized to fight and stalk the company together. But you're probably right.

Skurj - I love speculating about something we know almost literally nothing about.
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Relayer wrote:Skurj - I love speculating about something we know almost literally nothing about.
Have you tried the Skurj website? [link]
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Post by Tulizar »

Wayfriend wrote:
Relayer wrote:Skurj - I love speculating about something we know almost literally nothing about.
Have you tried the Skurj website? [link]
What a disappointment. I was just starting to get into their music, then bam, they split up! :wink:
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Post by Relayer »

:LOLS:

skurj at one of their gigs in Scoured Stonedown --> :spew:

So apparently Kastenessen was a father-figure appointed to make them grow up. He failed and broke his durance. skurj is now free to smoke the entire Land, as we saw in Linden's vision.
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Post by wayfriend »

I'm re-reading dissections (yes, I actually, am, for a forthcoming project which soon all will see). And something Covenant said in this chapter popped out at me.
"He opposes me. Here, like this, he's stronger than I am. Poor Anele can't hold me. I'm already fading."
I'm pretty sure now that "he" is Foul.

Foul is better at possession than Covenant. So it makes sense that he would be able to wrest Anele away from Covenant when it comes to possessor tug-o-war.

(Also, this is another confirming clue of this theory.)
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Re: Runes, Part 1 Chapter 11: Hints

Post by wayfriend »

danlo wrote:I don't know what the technical term for this art is; "descriptive geologist", "naturalist", or "literary landscapist", please help me here folks... Of course I'll have to back this up by a quote, the next time I see SRD in person I'll have to ask him if he makes a number of personal trips into the mountians to capture such scenes
You know, since we dissect this, I've now been to New Mexico, and have scratched the surface of what the landscape is like there (Sandia Peak, driving through Jemez Springs and up into Valles Caldera etc.)

There is no question in my mind that the NM landscape informs Donaldson's writing, in this chapter and in others.

There's also no question that it informs you, danlo. Living in the same place, you have the same perspective, the same sensitivity. It's no wonder to me that you love these passages so much.

And I'm with you 100%.

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