Kevin's Watch

any ideas on this one?

Well, he can't be killed, that much is clear. We weren't given any ideas on how he was able to regenerate, but he clearly can do so without the help of any outside source of power (for instance, he did so after the Ritual of Desecration.) It's possible that like the Demondim he's accessing some power through a ceasure, but we have no indication of that at present.

dlbpharmd wrote:Well, he can't be killed, that much is clear. We weren't given any ideas on how he was able to regenerate, but he clearly can do so without the help of any outside source of power (for instance, he did so after the Ritual of Desecration.) It's possible that like the Demondim he's accessing some power through a ceasure, but we have no indication of that at present.

It might be my imagination but, didnt he stay retreat Melenkurion Skywier and the Earthblood to regenerate afte the RoD?

I don't think so.

Heh then it is my imagination.

He had Mentos.

They are the freshmaker, afterall.-jay

Warmark wrote:It might be my imagination but, didnt he stay retreat Melenkurion Skywier and the Earthblood to regenerate afte the RoD?

Not exactly, but he did retreat into the Earthpower after either the RoD or (I think) after TPTP.

Warmark wrote:It might be my imagination but, didnt he stay retreat Melenkurion Skywier and the Earthblood to regenerate afte the RoD?

We were told he did that between Chronicles 1 & 2, enabled by the weakening of Law when the Staff of Law was destroyed.

My belief is that Lord Foul cannot be destroyed while the Arch of Time stands. The Creator's act of imprisoning him beneath the Arch essentially made him part of that Creation. The only way to permanently destroy Foul also involves taking down the Arch of time.

Covenant, who we know is the white gold, interposed himself as the keystone of the Arch of Time to protect it from Foul's assault and thereby defend the Land and its creations. In his rage to take down Covenant and the Arch, Foul expended himself all the way back to his basest form, just a mote of Despite. At that level, I think it is the very Arch of Time that Foul rails against that preserves him from oblivion.

In other words, if Foul is completely destroyed by the Last Chronicles, I think it will be at the cost of the Arch of Time and The Land beneath it.

[On a barely related note - the title of that book is White Gold Wielder. One can assume it is merely an epithet for Covenant, but I think it is interesting to note there were at least 3 WGWs in the story. Covenant, Linden, and Lord Foul all wielded the wild magic.]

DW

For some reason that conjures up an image of the Daffy Duck cartoon where he tries to raid Ali Baba's cave full of jewels "It's mine, MINE, ALL MINE!!"-after the Genie shrinks him he says in a tiny squeaky voice, "But, I have the crystal ball!!!!"

Remember, no one "destroyed" Lord Foul at the end of WGW. No one attacked him, no one harmed him.

He did it all to his little old self. He spent himself until he was all spent.

Therefore, I am sure that the dynamics of his recovery are somewhat different than after TPTP where he was "diminished" (for lack of a better word) by Covenant, Foamfollower, and the Dead.

And if he was able to heal himself by leaching from Earthpower before, that path is probably still accessible to him. A new Staff of Law was created, but we are unclear if the harm to Law and Earthpower was ever repaired - GI comments indicate not.

Furthermore, the Law of Life has also been broken now. If anything, it's probably easier than ever for Foul to "come back".

What I wonder, though, is if Foul has access to time, in the way Esmer, and the Elohim, do. If so, a new range of possibilities comes into play.

"Consequences, shmonsequences, as long as I'm rich."

[btw, That's my second greatest WB cartoon moment. My favorite is Daffy Duck as Robin Hood 'trip/trip/trippin' down the hill after sparring with a $1.25 quarterstaff.]

DW

Another reason why I love that cartoon is that he's originally traveling with Buggs underground and Buggs pops up, looks around, and says, "I must have taken the wrong turn at Albakooky."

Wayfriend wrote:What I wonder, though, is if Foul has access to time, in the way Esmer, and the Elohim, do. If so, a new range of possibilities comes into play.

If that's the case, then I imagine a scenario at the end of Last Chronicles where the final battle occurs right back at the very beginning - the point where Lord Foul gets tossed through the Arch. At that point, instead of destroying him, our heroes attempt to expel him, only to find out that doing so would destroy the Arch.

"The capacity for Despite cannot be banished utterly from the mortal realm, for it is a fact of the very volition that gives us meaning. To bereave one of the choice of malice is to make of them a simple tool, an object." - from an interview with the shade of dukkha Waynhim?

DW

Which brings us to... is Foul an individual (a prisoner)? Or is he fundamental building block of creation? Or, somehow, both? (This was discussed somewhat in the Two Cosmologies thread, I believe.)

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:

Warmark wrote:It might be my imagination but, didnt he stay retreat Melenkurion Skywier and the Earthblood to regenerate afte the RoD?

We were told he did that between Chronicles 1 & 2, enabled by the weakening of Law when the Staff of Law was destroyed.

Ah, yes, Thank You.

Wayfriend wrote:Which brings us to... is Foul an individual (a prisoner)? Or is he fundamental building block of creation? Or, somehow, both? (This was discussed somewhat in the Two Cosmologies thread, I believe.)

My vote is for 'Yes' on both counts. Taking the creation story as history rather than allegory, the Creator cast him down into the nearly-completed work, trapping him in the world. Thus, he is a prisoner. Because the Creator did this near the end of the creation process, Foul (an immortal presence that signifies Despite, dread, bad hygiene, with nasty-pointy teeth, etc.) also became a fundamental building block of creation in the Land - and I believe him to be an inseparable part of that creation. So, Foul himself is a paradox - a presence that is simultaneously immortal & un-killable while yet trapped within the confines of the Arch of Time. The imprisonment preserves his being at the same time that it limits him from pursuing his cosmic hobbies.

If you drink the Clave Kool-Aid, the Land is the Hell/prison for A-Jeroth (Foul). So another philosophical question is this: "Would Hell be Hell if not for Satan?"

The 1st-Chronicles people don't believe the Creator made the world as a prison for Foul - rather, He cast Foul down in a fit of anger upn seeing the banes Foul had hidden in the work.

[Of course, outside of the allegory, taking the externalization theory, Foul is just an anthropomorphized representation of Covenant's self-loathing and malice --- but that's a different thread]

More questions, but not as many answers...

DW

Foul is the incarnation of Despite. I suspect he simply grows from all the hate and other negative emotions in the world. Remember that we were told once that he came to the Land with human beings. I've long thought Foul may have been an implicit (but not really incarnate) entity in the world since the Creator exiled him to it, but it took people dabbling with Earthpower to zoop him up to full personhood originally. Maybe even the forging of the first Staff of Law had that effect, allowing things (like the Law or Despite) which had been implicit to become incarnate. In fact the Masters may even be partially right about the dangers inherent in using Earthpower.

Maybe foul hasn't even been replenished since the 2nd chrons. He might still be weakened, because he doesn't seem to be playing that great a part... but I doubt that. It probably takes power to summon people into the land.

Despite and Creation have to exist together. They cannot stand alone. Therefor foul can never be completely destroyed wthout destroying the Land.