Kevin's Watch

I just finished reading the gap series- I read the first one like 6 months ago, but the others were on loan at the time so I didn't get the rest till a couple weeks ago. Then, since it was the school holidays and I could survive staying up till 1.30am, I read three in a week.
Anyway, I just finished the last one today- pretty cool, but angus survived? Pretty unexpected!
Also no war with the amnion? Seemed a little too easy, especially as everyone forgot about the near C acceleration experiments, but yeah I'll roll with it.

Awesome series! I wouldn't put it above covenant, definately not the first chrons, but one thing I can say- morn sure beats reading linden whine for whole chapters!

Yeah, the Amnion are still a threat. That's a problem that remains unresolved. There have been debates on that.

CovenantJr wrote:Yeah, the Amnion are still a threat. That's a problem that remains unresolved. There have been debates on that.

Don't get started!

Go on, let yourself go!

CovenantJr wrote:Go on, let yourself go!

I can't.

Then at least have the decency to pull up your pants and run away.

I don't know if I'd call the ending happy.... satistying, yes... happy?.... I dunno.

But I was very happy with it.

CovenantJr wrote:Then at least have the decency to pull up your pants and run away.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!

And risk a misty, buggering presence rodger me?

Some risks have to be taken. And besides, a misty buggering presence must be preferable to an entirely corporeal one.

CovenantJr wrote:Some risks have to be taken. And besides, a misty buggering presence must be preferable to an entirely corporeal one.

I wasn't happy with Angus getting off scott-free...but I think there's another thread about that somewhere....

drew wrote:I wasn't happy with Angus getting off scott-free...but I think there's another thread about that somewhere....

I had no problems, because he redeemed himself. Why would he need prison if had proven he was redeemed? It would be a token gesture.

So a mass murderer gets a 'Stay-out-of-Jail' card just for turning into a decent human being?

Where's Dennis when I need him?

It depends on whether or not you believe if prison exists to rehabilitate or punish, I guess...

drew wrote:So a mass murderer gets a 'Stay-out-of-Jail' card just for turning into a decent human being?

Where's Dennis when I need him?

Let's say that his becoming a decent human being circumvents prison. Otherwise what is the point to prison? I don't want this thread to become a debate on the purpose of prison and punishment of criminals (nor do I want to discourage you from debating this). But we have the benefit of dealing with a character who's intentions are known; we know his every thought and action. In real life, we don't have that luxury. Therefore, we can't apply Angus' redemption to real life.

No I don't want this to turn political myself...so I'll just slightly change directions...

I felt that Angus never really redeemed himself.

He was only a Good Guy because he was forced into it, and because he had a big crush on Morn. (How noble, since he caused all of her problems)

And, how was he changed? The last things we saw him do were to steal a ship, and kill four people; three of them were innocent bystanders.

For doing that, he gets to not be held accountable for the dozens of other innocent people he killed or sold?

In my oppinion he'd do it all over again in a heartbeat.

Those three were mindless drones, IIRC.

His obsession with Morn makes him question his actions--he doesn't want to do things she wouldn't like. It's had the secondary effect of making him start to do things he thinks she would do or would want him to do. It's not exactly a strict rule, but it's affected his behaviour and will continue to do so, I think.
It's the way behavioural changes work--he'll start out doing it because Morn would approve, then as he gets into such situations more and more often, as it moves into habit for him to play the hero, he'd find himself doing such things for their own merit. I'm sure we see the start of that change in the last book.

drew wrote:He was only a Good Guy because he was forced into it, and because he had a big crush on Morn. (How noble, since he caused all of her problems)

As I understand it, he decided to do the right thing.

drew wrote:And, how was he changed? The last things we saw him do were to steal a ship, and kill four people; three of them were innocent bystanders.

The cyborgs had guns. He killed them as they reached for their weapons.

drew wrote:For doing that, he gets to not be held accountable for the dozens of other innocent people he killed or sold?

Angus was welded. He suffered enough by having his liberty taken away from him; in my mind, the cruelty inflicted on him by Warden, Hashi and Fasner was bad enough, not to mention being used as a tool to bring down the Dragon, having to lick another man's ass, and being a tool for Nick.

I've argued this in circles with Lucimay long enough.

But nothing good happened to him UNTIL he was welded.
So he had to toss someone's salad and eat a few cigaretts...small compansation to be paid for selling a shipload of people to the Amnion.

If he had of killed Holt first, the Cyborgs would have been called off, as they were under his comand.

You know, if perhaps he ended up working for years for the UCMP being their drone, doing their bidding wether he wanted to or not, then I might be willing to budge to at least say that he paid a little price for his crimes...but he excaped on his first job! I haven't read to story enough to know the exact timeline, but it was less than month form when he was welded to when he get to fly around the galaxy in Holt's ship...retaining all of his Cyborgness without any restraints.


An Entire Mining camp of innocent minners..Killed. An enitire ship of innocent people...muttated. Your punishement: super human powers.

It's unforgivable. But punishing him would serve no purpose.
Since he has changed, and since it wouldn't serve as discouragement to others (it's unlikely that it would be made public knowledge), what would punishing him achieve?