House of Chains [Spoilers]

[lucimay]

Onrack's wife went mad with her anger and jealously about what happened with Kilava, and eventually became the Whirlwind goddess

whoa. i missed THAT!!!

[Farm Ur-Ted]

Syballe had nothing to do with it, and I'm not sure where you got that impression.

I was thinking it because the goddess said that the Imass Ho had gone on to have countless children; that made me think of Syballe and her army of children. But your story makes a lot more sense; now that you reminded me, I do remember Onrack saying all of that.

whoa. i missed THAT!!!

Aren't you glad I asked?

[I'm Murrin]

Luci, I don't think that the connection between Onrack's wife and Dryjhna was explicitly stated; IIRC the section where her origins were explained just gave enough similarities between the stories so that the connection would be made.

[Fist and Faith]

Well how 'bout that! Sometimes I do follow all this stuff!!

Now to start another thread for something I have NO clue about: Morn!!

[lucimay]

and...i think it's time i did a reread. arg. i've read GotM twice but i just haven't been able to make myself have to deal with Felisin and Heboric again. urg.

[aliantha]

and...i think it's time i did a reread. arg. i've read GotM twice but i just haven't been able to make myself have to deal with Felisin and Heboric again. urg.

Yah. Such pleasant folks...

I quit my reread when the Reaper's Gale showed up and haven't gotten back to it. I s'pose I should go back and finish, before I forget everything again....

[Fist and Faith]

Hmm, I'm confused. It's when Kalam buys those two knives. He's looking at the mark/stamp it's invested with. His thoughts lead here and there, and to this:

Cycles indeed. And now this House of Chains. The damned Crippled God-

You damned fool, Cotillion. You were there at the last Chaining, weren't you? You should have stuck a knife in the bastard right there and then.

How the heck could Cotillion have been at the Crippled God's Chaining??? I certainly haven't heard that Dancer was that old before he ascended. But even if he was, he only ascended when Laseen "killed" him. What am I missing?

[I'm Murrin]

It was mentioned in other books, too, right back to GotM. There was a more recent chaining, at which Shadowthrone and Cotillion were present, and which also was when Hood took Dassem's daughter, causing him to give up his role as Hood's Knight.

[Fist and Faith]

I remember that about Dassem and his daughter. I guess, in addition to never knowing why Hood took her, I didn't know it was a second Chaining. So, what, they Chained the Fallen One twice?

[Fist and Faith]

I truly don't remember what role Nil and Nether play in HoC. But at the moment, I just want to bitch-slap the two of them. Couple of whiners. All frail and tired. Sheesh, how old are these two anyway? Several decades? Maybe a couple centuries? Haven't they had it rough before? Start acting like Wickans, for cryin' out loud!!

[Fist and Faith]

One of the more interesting visuals of the first four books, imo, is Heboric floating through space, watching giant jade statues floating by, spinning... spinning... spinning...

[Onos T'oolan]

So why the heck did Karsa let the Malazans go? He was Sha'ik's bodyguard. I thought he would have killed Tavore, at the very least.

[Avatar]

At the end? Because he no longer cared for glory or senseless killing. He...changed.

Anyway, great book...tied with DG for my favourite. And a clear improvement...this time, the 1st 1/3rd and last 1/3rd were awesome. Karsa of course rocks.

(Farm-ur Ted...the Syballe's army of children are the "sacrificed" children of Karsa's tribe, left to die of exposure before their "gods.")

Thoroughly enjoyed this one. Great characters, awesome build-up to the (largely) non-battle...not sure how I feel about the ghosts of the chain rising though.

--A

[wayfriend]

I finished this book, for the first time, a few weeks ago.

I just have to say, what a let down. Two whole books of buildup for the Whirldwind, the apocolyptic battle to end all apocolyptic battles, and then *squick*. Felesin finally confronts her sister... *thud*.

And too many characters entering the story, doing essentially nothing, and then leaving you wondering what they were for. Kalam. Trull. The other T'lan dude. The Tiste Liosan. Fiddler. Herboric.

It was entertaining as a story while you're reading it, but it takes you nowhere, and leaves you feeling unsated when its done.

[lucimay]

you are reading several very large and complicated threads in a very large and complex story. HoC is only a PART of that large and complex multi-threaded story. are you saying, way, that you don't think HoC stands on it's own as well as other books in the series?

personally i just have not been able to criticize this series in anyway yet.
i find these enormous books, with all their threads and characters, well written and consistant. it will take me several read-throughs of ALL the books once the series is finished before i'd even feel qualified to talk about what one of the books does or doesn't do or what one of the books serves or doesn't serve of the larger story.

thus far nothing erikson or esselmont has written has been disappointing in any way to me.

have you read Return of the Crimson Guard yet? or Night of Knives?

[wayfriend]

I have finished Midnight Tides, and that's as far as I have gotten.

Yes, the books don't seem to stand well on their own. Multi-book threads are okay. However, the threads that ended in this book ended very ungratifyingly. The threads that passed through this book seemed to have no overall purpose -- and even if it's a continuing story, there should feel like there is a purpose, you should feel like you know what the characters are trying to do in some sense, otherwise there's no investment.

You can't wait 7,000 pages for a payoff. You have to have some payoffs from time to time. HoC was 1,000 pages with none.

[Onos T'oolan]

personally i just have not been able to criticize this series in anyway yet.
i find these enormous books, with all their threads and characters, well written and consistant. it will take me several read-throughs of ALL the books once the series is finished before i'd even feel qualified to talk about what one of the books does or doesn't do or what one of the books serves or doesn't serve of the larger story.

thus far nothing erikson or esselmont has written has been disappointing in any way to me.

I so very much agree!! (Except I haven't read any Esselmont yet. Where did you get your copies?) I've never been so taken by any series of books.

[lucimay]

welp way...i guess to each his own. *shrug*

the entire series has been more than gratifying to me. i like both erikson and esslemont's writing styles and i find that erikson sometimes says things that i find life-changingly profound. not kidding.
of course i've heard that said about donaldson too, that people have had that kind of experience reading donaldson, which i've never had.
i guess i'd say erikson just resonates with me so that i'm not overly concerned about having to have threads tied up by the end of whatever book, and i don't impose my own idea of what "should" happen in the story and find it lacking in any of the books in any way.
i enjoy any and all stories which take place in this world that erikson and esslemont have created.

i'm sorry you're not liking it as much!

[Onos T'oolan]

the entire series has been more than gratifying to me. i like both erikson and esslemont's writing styles and i find that erikson sometimes says things that i find life-changingly profound. not kidding.

*high fives Luci* Again, I so very much agree! Damn. I'm surprised anyone else feels this way about it.

i'm sorry you're not liking it as much!

Indeed. Like, among other examples, Jenn with Neverness, it's somewhat sad when I'm unable to transfer my joy of a book to someone else. But I guess it goes the other way, them going ga-ga over things I could take or leave, so I don't get all depressed or nuthin'. Heh.

[wayfriend]

Personally, I can't believe that no one is bothered by the fact that 2,000 pages of buildup to the Apocolypse Whirlwind Battle of all Battles, ended that way? Yeesh. And you call me crazy.