Kevin's Watch

I hope this ain't a double...

Do you think Sunder and Hollian are somehow lesser beings in power (I mean, Earthpower) than the Forestals were?

While writing this post I felt a tinge of pain and genuine nostalgia at remembering the awe of Covenant and all of the Lords, old and new, toward Andelain. How can you make a territory almost as satisfactory as any human character and even more? There SRD is a genius, lol, and you’ll say everybody knows it…
But I just can’t help admitting that all the scenes in Andelain are an enchantment.

They are different than the Lords; who were different from the Old Lords, who were (way) different than the Forrestals.

The Forestals were created to have their own power.

The Old Lords learned their own power directly from the Earthpower--or at least Berek did, and he tried to teach it to his kindred, who intern expanded their lore.

The new Lords when trying to learn the Old lore, were troubled...but once they tried to figure things out for themselves (mind melds, the oath of peace) they, in my oppinion exceeded the olds Lords lore...I'm talking about what happened after TPTP. They might not have been able to do things, like create Amok...but that was unnesesarry

Sunder and Hoolian: the seeds were already there, they had some control of the perverted lore taught by the Clave; but once the learned about true Earthpower, and how to use it--I think once TWL ended, Sun and Holli would have grown in their lore, and it would have been more along the lines of the post-Mhoram style lore.

With the new Staff of Law, Sunder and Hollian had the potential to be as powerful as any Lord.

Potentially, they would have power similar to the old Lords. They are starting out with Earthpower and a Staff, like Berek, and need to write their own Lore, like Berek. It might be that they could find any Wards that survived in Revelstone; that would be of help.

But I cannot help thinking, they're dead, and resurrected. Their relationship with life is different than regular people. This makes them stronger in some ways, weaker in others. (For example, the need to remain in Andelain, close to Earthpower.)

Such people would have different limits on how they can use power. I think that, potentially, they might have different capabilities than the other Lords for this reason.

This is just a gut feeling, but consider, Hollian was dead for a time. The dead, according to the dead we meet in Andelain, have access to information which they cannot relate to mortals. So what happens if they become themselves mortal again? I think that they have to be different in some way.

*****RUNES SPOILER BELOW*****

Wayfriend wrote:But I cannot help thinking, they're dead, and resurrected. Their relationship with life is different than regular people. This makes them stronger in some ways, weaker in others. (For example, the need to remain in Andelain, close to Earthpower.)

But they didn't need to remain in Andelain. They said they needed to right after the resurrection in WGW. But Anele says he was born in Mithil Stonedown, and that he travelled throughout the Land with his parents. Before Runes came out, it was suggested that, once Pitchwife and the First gave them the Staff, they might be able to use it to leave Andelain. Until I hear otherwise, I'm sticking with that theory.

Wayfriend wrote:But I cannot help thinking, they're dead, and resurrected. Their relationship with life is different than regular people. This makes them stronger in some ways, weaker in others. (For example, the need to remain in Andelain, close to Earthpower.)

But once the Sun-Bane has been destroyed there would be Earthpower everywhere, so Hollian could go anywhere she wanted. Also, the new Staff of Law is one pretty big source of Earthpower that I imagine would have sustained her easily.

There's a thread about the development of Sunder and Hollian's lore after WGW, and it deals with the fact that once they'd learned how to use the Staff of Law, they weren't restricted to Andelain:

'So Who Taught the Land's People how to Survive Post Sunbane?'

Sorry don't know how to post the link!

Chuchichastli wrote:There's a thread about the development of Sunder and Hollian's lore after WGW, and it deals with the fact that once they'd learned how to use the Staff of Law, they weren't restricted to Andelain:

'So Who Taught the Land's People how to Survive Post Sunbane?'

Sorry don't know how to post the link!

It's Here : kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=721

Thanks, Warmark!

variol son wrote:

Wayfriend wrote:But I cannot help thinking, they're dead, and resurrected. Their relationship with life is different than regular people. This makes them stronger in some ways, weaker in others. (For example, the need to remain in Andelain, close to Earthpower.)

But once the Sun-Bane has been destroyed there would be Earthpower everywhere, so Hollian could go anywhere she wanted.

Chuchichastli, variol son, Fist and Faith,

All I am saying is that they are different than regular people. Regular people don't need Earthpower in any way to stay alive. Which proves my point. That's the only reason I mentioned it. It doesn't matter whether S&H actually stayed in Andelain or not.

As Wayfriend mentioned, the topic was about the nature of the couple not their accomplishments. A nature I could not grasp somehow. I've just gone trough re-reading that scene and I think I understand better.
Now I think they are more close to being Forestal than human, and their power is more like a natural inheritance than something you can learn like with the Lords even with the fact that they already had some eldritch knowledge.

Wayfriend wrote:Chuchichastli, variol son, Fist and Faith,

All I am saying is that they are different than regular people. Regular people don't need Earthpower in any way to stay alive. Which proves my point. That's the only reason I mentioned it. It doesn't matter whether S&H actually stayed in Andelain or not.

I gotcha. However, it's a "weakness" I'd be more than willing to take on. I mean, we are dependent on various things, too. Water, air, whatever. Needing Earthpower to stay alive might actually get rid of some of those needs, and the abilities it brings are pretty darned cool, even if it is necessary to be confined to Andelain, or the Land, or its Earth.

Fist and Faith wrote:Needing Earthpower to stay alive might actually get rid of some of those needs, and the abilities it brings are pretty darned cool ... ...

Indeed. We need look no further than the Bloodguard for evidence of this.

Alsem wrote:As Wayfriend mentioned, the topic was about the nature of the couple not their accomplishments. A nature I could not grasp somehow. I've just gone trough re-reading that scene and I think I understand better.
Now I think they are more close to being Forestal than human, and their power is more like a natural inheritance than something you can learn like with the Lords even with the fact that they already had some eldritch knowledge.

i agree. their very essence is steeped in Earthpower. they are more innately connected to the Land, a part of it, than the Lords, imo.

HS: Peven, your signature rocks, lol

Alsem wrote:Now I think they are more close to being Forestal than human, and there power is more like a natural inheritance than something you can learn like with the Lords even with the fact that they already had some eldritch knowledge.

I could not agree more. I've speculated on this in the Runes dissection, which would be to spoilerish to mention here. I will only say: I think Caer Caveral, the last remaining Forestal, had a deeper plan than just breaking the Law of Life and ressurecting Hollian. He didn't sing that song to say he was giving up.