Kevin's Watch

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:07 pm**

ok, so since tc is back from the past, does that mean that he also will be using the same white gold ring that linden has?

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:10 pm**

Welcome!

I think SRD's response to this question would be "RAFO." (Read and find out.)

Posted: **Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:09 pm**

Naw - that's an easy one! Linden picked up "the" ring at the end of White Gold Wielder, and it was translated back to the "real" world with her. That's one of the strokes of genius regarding that ending - she wakes up with the ring in her hand (it's not still on Covenant's finger).

This is going to be important somewhere in the Last Chronicles (I think SRD says something to that effect in the Gradual Interview). I think the breaking of the various Laws had some effect on making the distiction between the worlds a bit "grey." In the First Chronicles, if Covenant put a stone in his pocket during his travels in the Land, I'm *sure* it would have been gone when he woke up in the "real" world. But now ... who knows.

Posted: **Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:38 pm**

agreed! Thanks Romeo. It has been a stiking point that I noticed at the end of WGW...

Posted: **Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:44 pm**

I think I misunderstood the question - I agree that there is only "one" white gold ring that formerly belonged to Covenant, and now belongs to Linden.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:02 am**

but if all the times before that covenant had been in the land he had possession of his ring wouldnt it mean that this covenant from the past would still have it? wouldnt it mean that both linden and tc would be holding a two rings that were actually the same just from different times?

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:20 am**

Romeo wrote:Naw - that's an easy one! Linden picked up "the" ring at the end of White Gold Wielder, and it was translated back to the "real" world with her. That's one of the strokes of genius regarding that ending - she wakes up with the ring in her hand (it's not still on Covenant's finger).

This is going to be important somewhere in the Last Chronicles (I think SRD says something to that effect in the Gradual Interview). I think the breaking of the various Laws had some effect on making the distiction between the worlds a bit "grey." In the First Chronicles, if Covenant put a stone in his pocket during his travels in the Land, I'm *sure* it would have been gone when he woke up in the "real" world. But now ... who knows.

Wait.
I too thought that was a HUGE event.
That Linden *kept* the ring during the translation back to the "real" world.
That it was hers now and all that went with it from the marriage to TC aspect plus now being the rightful wielder of Wild Magic.

*But* then I was shattered to read in the GI that SRD didn't tell us that Linden had just gone/walked over to TC to retrieve it.
If I remember correctly he said it was one of those little things that he just assumed the readers would get but then was surprised that they/we didn't get it.

Anyone know if I read that wrong in the GI?

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:00 pm**

The ring was in Linden's hand when she left the Land, and that is why it was in her hand after her return.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:41 pm**

There's no mention of her taking it off of Covenant's hand in the "real" world - and Berenford was there, so he would have noticed. I don't think she went near Covenant's body at all after she got back. So her already having the ring in her hand is a *major* thing - we just don't know what it means yet.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:44 pm**

Romeo wrote:There's no mention of her taking it off of Covenant's hand in the "real" world - and Berenford was there, so he would have noticed. I don't think she went near Covenant's body at all after she got back. So her already having the ring in her hand is a *major* thing - we just don't know what it means yet.

I've actually been rereading the GI trying to find it again.
No luck so far though.
But I swear SRD said that he didn't write it because he thought it would be obvious that Linden went over and got the ring from TC.

I'll keep looking though.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:21 pm**

We'll all be waiting! *I'll bet if he doesn't find the passage, he'll blame Linden for failing to do it!*

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:26 pm**

A Gunslinger wrote:We'll all be waiting! *I'll bet if he doesn't find the passage, he'll blame Linden for failing to do it!*

Well, the first thing I thought when I read it was "That bitch just stole his ring!"

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:59 pm**

I don't think you're crazy, HLT, because I remember reading the same thing as well. Something has to be in the GI. Unless we're both crazy, heh.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:"That bitch just stole his ring!"

Hehe.

-jay

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:05 pm**

I don't remember if he mentioned it in the GI or in an email exchange. When I started helping with Runes, I sent him a lot of "preconception" information - where I thought it would go if there ever was another book, what the title "The Runes of the Earth" suggested to me before I even started reading it, etc. Nothing that helped shape the book, but I thought he'd be interested in what was going through a reader's mind before opening the book (other than woohoo! woohoo! woohoo! etc. infinatum). I'm sure I mentioned Linden having the ring in the "real world" at that time - and I'm pretty sure his response to that as that it was not accidental and was a hook put there in anticipation of the Last Chronicles. (He did say that he conceived the Last Chrons when he was put on contract to write the Second.) I'd be surprised if he said something different in the GI.

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:13 pm**

High Lord Tolkien wrote:
Romeo wrote:There's no mention of her taking it off of Covenant's hand in the "real" world - and Berenford was there, so he would have noticed. I don't think she went near Covenant's body at all after she got back. So her already having the ring in her hand is a *major* thing - we just don't know what it means yet.
I've actually been rereading the GI trying to find it again.
No luck so far though.
But I swear SRD said that he didn't write it because he thought it would be obvious that Linden went over and got the ring from TC.

I'll keep looking though.

I've looked and I can't find it. I do remember someone asking at some point how Linden got the ring, and I thought his response was "RAFO."

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:33 pm**

The only thing I can find is this:

I never intended this to be a big mystery; so I'm always a little nonplussed when people see the possibilities for a larger issue. From my perspective, the fact that Linden ends up with Covenant's ring *even though we never see her take possession of it in the real world* is just another example of the ways in which events in the real world and events in the Land tend to mirror each other. Think of it as "sympathetic magic," if you're comfortable with that concept. In the Land, Linden makes a very deliberate choice to go pick up Covenant's ring; so of course (by the logic of sympathetic magic--or simply by the logic of organic unity within the story) that same choice would be mirrored in the real world, even though in the real world Linden is at best only semi-conscious (perhaps in one of those stupefied states where afterward people can't remember what they did).

I know this doesn't sound very satisfying. But it *is* what I had in mind when I wrote the story.

(04/10/2005)

Is that what you're talking about HLT?

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:43 pm**

ok but regardless of the fact that linden has the ring now, assuming this tc riding with her son is in fact a tc from one of his past visits to the land, he should in fact still have the ring right, just a previous version of it. im just wondering that if it two versions of the same ring are present what kind of consequences might happen? does this make sense or am i just confusing myself?

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:59 pm**

Here's one I just found - and it does contradict what I remember him saying or telling me. Perhaps he said it in one of the videos taken at the first Elohimfest? I looked through my personal email, and can't find it in there either. But I remember hearing or reading the "other" explanation a lost more vividly than I remember the post below. The only thing I can think of is that he had too much cough syrup the day he wrote this answer.

Gerhardt Goeken: Toward the end of "The One Tree," we see an attempt to send Linden Avery back to the "real" world. It is close, but she can't come all the way back. She see what's going on.

At the end of "White Gold Wielder" Linden does come back, but we never see her approach Thomas Covenant's corpse and take the ring off his hand, yet she walks away with it.

How did this happen? Is this a lose end to be explained in "The Runes of the Earth?" I always figured another story was waiting. Twenty years may be too long to have waited for an answer.

I never intended this to be a big mystery; so I'm always a little nonplussed when people see the possibilities for a larger issue. From my perspective, the fact that Linden ends up with Covenant's ring *even though we never see her take possession of it in the real world* is just another example of the ways in which events in the real world and events in the Land tend to mirror each other. Think of it as "sympathetic magic," if you're comfortable with that concept. In the Land, Linden makes a very deliberate choice to go pick up Covenant's ring; so of course (by the logic of sympathetic magic--or simply by the logic of organic unity within the story) that same choice would be mirrored in the real world, even though in the real world Linden is at best only semi-conscious (perhaps in one of those stupefied states where afterward people can't remember what they did).

I know this doesn't sound very satisfying. But it *is* what I had in mind when I wrote the story.

(04/10/2005)

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:00 pm**

Doh! I need to be quicker with these things, eh?

This is what I get for getting up to get a glass of wine!

Posted: **Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:09 pm**

Hehehehehe...it's only 10am here so my brain's firing... If I'd seen this in the evening I probably wouldn't have even bothered looking for it!