The 300 in history

[Damelon]

I enjoyed the movie 300, like most everyone else here, but it wasn’t quite historical, and certainly not a cut and dry story about freedom and slavery. I recently read the book Persian Fire, a new book by Tom Holland with that era as it’s subject. The story of the battle of Thermoyplae, as it has come down to us in history is quite as dramatic as the movie. It’s too long to commit to one post, so I’ll start on a couple of points, and add other details in further posts.

Coming of age in the wild:

Young Spartans, when they came of age did not go into the wilds to live off the land and to face wild animals. The best of them went into the wilds to kill men.

For select Spartan boys, the final rituals of coming of age meant that they joined a select group. Sparta, ritually each year, declared war against their slaves. These boys then were sent to hunt and kill those slaves who, it was felt, had grown too headstrong, or had shown signs of possessing a dangerous amount of personal initiative. The Spartans were great believers in eugenics, improving character traits by breeding. Just as by exposing weak or deformed infants the Spartans hoped to produce the best soldiers; by killing off the most able slaves, they hoped to breed docile servants. It was for these reasons that Thermoyplae were regarded as the high point of Greek history by Hitler, who shared the Spartans belief in eugenics. He sought to replicate the feat of the Spartans of Thermoyplae, at the battle of Stalingrad, where he, at the end of the battle ordered his army not to surrender.

The ambassador:

The ambassador actually came to Sparta some 15 years before the battle. Ambassadors were sent throughout Greece by Xerxes’ father Darius looking for tokens of submission. When they came to Sparta, Cleomenes, half-brother of Leonidas was a king of Sparta. (Sparta actually had two kings. Cleomenes and Leonidas were from the senior line). The ambassador demanded earth and water as tokens of submission to Darius. Cleomenes had the ambassador thrown into a well, saying that he’d find plenty of both down there. The Ambassador drowned.

This was a major breach of diplomatic custom, a custom that was ancient, and lasting. It lives till this day in the saying “Don’t kill the messenger.” It troubled some Spartans so much that, years later while Xerxes was gathering his army to invade Greece, two elder Spartans volunteered to go to Xerxes with the intent of sacrificing themselves to atone for what Cleomenes had done. Xerxes, cleverly, spared them stating that he would not be held guilty of the same offense as the Spartans.

[Avatar]

Hmm, AFAIK, that bit about going out to kill slaves is still a matter of speculation.

What has always interested me of course is that the Spartan forces, while numbering only 300 actually Spartans, really totalled around 7,000 (according to Herodotus) once you added in the other greek units they commanded.

--A

[Kinslaughterer]

At the end of the battle, as the Immortals find the hidden trail to surprise/surround the Greeks 2 groups remained the Spartans and the Thespians. However the Thespians are mocked in the the movie as being militia rather than soldiers and fleeing however they remained while other Greek forces evacuated. They are truly the forgotten warriors.

Leonidas also mocks Athens as "boy-loving" however homosexual behavior was common in Sparta possibly moreso than the rest of Greece.

[Fist and Faith]

At the end of the battle, as the Immortals find the hidden trail to surprise surround the Greeks 2 groups remained the Spartans and the Thespians who are mocked in the the movie as being militia rather than soldiers and fleeing however they remained while other Greek forces evacuated. They are truly the forgotten warriors.

I don't intend to quote Gates of Fire for any sort of historical purpose. It is certainly inaccurate in many ways. However, Pressfield obviously shares your feelings about the Thespians. This is just before the very end, when several Spartans and Thespians speak their final words:

The men began calling for Dithyrambos. The Thespian stepped forth with his usual profane glint. He gestured toward the pass beyond the Narrows, where the advance parties of the Persians had arrived and begun staking out the marshaling salients for the army. "Just go out there," he proclaimed, "and have fun!"

Dark laughter cut the assembly. Several others of the Thespians spoke. They were more curt than the Spartans. When they finished, Polynikes stepped to the front.

"It is no hard thing for a man raised under the laws of Lykurgus to offer up his life for his country. For me and for these Spartans, all of whom have living sons, and who have known since boyhood that this was the end they were called to, it is an act of completion before the gods."

He turned solemnly toward the Thespians and the freed squires and helots.

"But for you, brothers and friends... for you who will this day see all extinguished forever..."

The runner's voice cracked and broke. He choked and blew snot into his hand in lieu of the tears to whose issue his will refused to permit. For long moments he could not summon speech. He motioned for his shield; it was passed to him. He displayed it aloft.

"This aspis was my father's and his father's before him. I have sworn before God to die before another man took this from my hand."

He crossed to the ranks of the Thespians, to a man, an obscure warrior among them. Into the fellow's grasp he placed the shield.

The man accepted it, moved profoundly, and presented his own to Polynikes. Another followed, and another, until twenty, thirty shields had traded hands. Others exchanged armor and helmets with the freed squires and helots. The black cloaks of the Thespians and the scarlet of the Lakedaemonians intermingled until all distinctuion between the nations had been effaced.

Leonidas also mocks Athens as "boy-loving" however homosexual behavior was common in Sparta possibly moreso than the rest of Greece.

A reader's letter in one of the issues of the comic was complaining about this. At the time, I hadn't ever heard about how common homosexual behavior was among the Spartans. I wonder if there's any chance they ridiculed it even as they practiced it, as is often the case today. Or, since it was such a part of their culture, did they accept it, and this mocking is very inaccurate?

[Kinslaughterer]

A reader's letter in one of the issues of the comic was complaining about this. At the time, I hadn't ever heard about how common homosexual behavior was among the Spartans. I wonder if there's any chance they ridiculed it even as they practiced it, as is often the case today. Or, since it was such a part of their culture, did they accept it, and this mocking is very inaccurate?

Homosexual behavior was relatively common in pre-Christian Europe. Athens probably treated much as we do today with some accepting, some morally opposed, and many apathetic towards it. Sparta, however had established it as a cultural institution in domestic and military life.

Generally, the movie portrays the Spartans as displaying Western/Modern masculinity rather than Ancient Greek masculinity which ultimately are very different ideals.

The movie also portrays the Spartans as primarily fighting for freedom. It seems that national and cultural pride was probably a far stronger influence although few would accept enslavement. All of Greece had slaves as did the Persians but generally the Persians treated their slaves relatively well. I'd bet that the combination of religious and cultural ideas with the Laconian mindset of toughness (Spartan!) was more than enough motivation for them to fight.

[Marv]

I was reading something by an historian called Victor Davis Hanson. Interestingly he was quite dismissive of the battle of Thermopylae. Here's how he described it;

The bold Greek strategy qickly collapsed, and despite the courage of the Spartans at Thermopylae and the loss of much of the Persian fleet due to storms at Artemesium, both land and sea battles comprised together the greatest military defeat in the history of the Greek city states. A Spartan king was now dead, his body mutilated, over 4'000 crack hoplites were killed, a large percentage of the Greek fleet was damaged and everything north of the Isthmus at Corinth lay naked before the invader.

He doesn't even describe the second war in which the Spartan's played a major role as the turning point of the Hellenic-Persian wars. He thinks that the naval encounter at Salamis won the day for the Greeks.

[Warmark]

A small question, is Herakles and Hercules the same person?
Differents books and recounts say Spartans were descened form these people, but i take it that they are just different spellings?

[Lorelei]

If I remember my mytholog correctly they are different spellings for the same individual.

Herakles is the original Greek spelling and Hercules is the Latin spelling.

[Avatar]

Lorelei is right.

--A

[Warmark]

Thought so, Cheers.

[Tjol]

It troubled some Spartans so much that, years later while Xerxes was gathering his army to invade Greece, two elder Spartans volunteered to go to Xerxes with the intent of sacrificing themselves to atone for what Cleomenes had done. Xerxes, cleverly, spared them stating that he would not be held guilty of the same offense as the Spartans.

Is that where the exiled king that advised Xerxes came from?

I loved the movie. I also love that it brought me to some reading of greek history. I staerted with the Greco-Persian War, but now I'm half through the Pelopennesian War(s) which I am amazed is not part of the core curriculum in high school history courses, or even generalised college world history classes.

One thing I am finding interesting in reading letters to the editor of the local paper, is the people who attempt to equate the tolerant, medising, diplomatic approach of Darius with the methods of Xerxes. Well I think it's kind of silly that modern day Persians even think that Xerxes reflects on them, but more silly is the suggestion that Xerxes was not a tyrant. Rebllions in Egypt and Babylon were brought down, and then their religious monuments were defiled; the letters I'm seeing though point to Darius' diplomatic conquests and tolerant leadership (he took the title pharoah to respect Egyptian traditions for example, which Xerxes did not) as somehow proof of Xerxes not being the tyrant that he in fact was.

Homosexual behavior was relatively common in pre-Christian Europe. Athens probably treated much as we do today with some accepting, some morally opposed, and many apathetic towards it. Sparta, however had established it as a cultural institution in domestic and military life.

When Cicero made his accusation against anthony, part of the accusations of Anthony's lack of character imply that Anthony excessively indulged in homosexual behavior, among other bad habits. So, by Cicero's time anyways, homosexuality was thought of as a vice at least, even if it was not a punishable crime.

[Kinslaughterer]

Cicero's charge against Anthony probably fell into the category of specifically anal sex as opposed the larger homosexual behavior.

[Tjol]

Cicero's charge against Anthony probably fell into the category of specifically anal sex as opposed the larger homosexual behavior.

True enough. The split between behavior and actual amorousness is tough to discern, because I've always read such behavior in historical contexts as a vice for a heterosexual, rather than as being a specific sexuality as it is defined contemporarily.

[Kinslaughterer]

In Greece, if you did that exclusively and frequently then you were considered decadent.

[Avatar]

It wasn't so much that it was a vice (although it was) as it was your duty to father children. If you fathered children, then however else you got your jollies was pretty much up to you.

--A

[Cybrweez]

Just finished reading Thermopylae by Paul Cartledge, a very good book. Alhough he focuses on the Spartans, he does mention that the Thespians were the other group that stayed til the end.

He also delves into the idea of suicide fighter, essentially what the Spartans and Thespians were, they assumed they were dying in the battle. His claim for the Spartans, it was natural for them to die for their community, and the idea of freedom, as they were state educated to believe in that very thing. In a sense, the Spartans were fundamentalist in that they would die for their ideals, and yet they didn't put much focus on self-enquiry, to determine whether their ideals were worth dying for (and he also points out the paradox of dying for freedom when enslaving a group of people). The difference b/w today's suicide fighters being that the Spartans targeted military assets.

I thought the homosexual behavior in Sparta was related to the state education, an young unmarried man in early 20s would have such a relationship with a boy in the "school". But the normal behavior was to marry and have children, so it may be they looked down Athens' homosexuality, but I wouldn't imagine by thinking of them as boy lovers.