Kevin's Watch

I always wondered. During WGW when Linden was reaching out with the Staff and White Gold. A sudden case of PMS hit her. What would the Land be like?
Would Foul be able to come back. Would it change him? What effects would it have on the people?

I guess I think of the most bizzare questions.

Ur Dead wrote:I guess I think of the most bizzare questions.

You are not wrong....

*runs*

Yes, this is a bizarre question.

Well, I never thought I'd be asking this in a TC thread, but at what age do women stop having PMS? I believe Linden is in her mid-30's?

Yeah, that's weird one even in my book.

Consider your THOOLAH membership suspended until we review your background check again.

Matrixman wrote:Yes, this is a bizarre question.

Well, I never thought I'd be asking this in a TC thread, but at what age do women stop having PMS? I believe Linden is in her mid-30's?

The average age for menopause is 51, if that tells you anything.

The Land would have been healed, except that there would be one occurrence of the Sunbane, every 4 weeks or so, and lasting about 3 days. So there would be 27 days of normalcy, then there would be a Sun of Pestilence, then 27 days recovering from that, then a Desert Sun, etc...

Relayer wrote:The Land would have been healed, except that there would be one occurrence of the Sunbane, every 4 weeks or so, and lasting about 3 days. So there would be 27 days of normalcy, then there would be a Sun of Pestilence, then 27 days recovering from that, then a Desert Sun, etc...

My initial response was that since periods are linked with Luna and Luna is fundamental to Magick, Linden would have only experienced an instance of PMS during her time of healing the Land if Lord Foul was meant to share Reality, a la entirely ying-yang. And Relayer your hypothesis is the physical expession of this symbiosis, and the Haruchai would be indeed astonished.

I find the question to be more immature than bizarre. From a story telling perspective--or even a comic one--I can't think of anything of value arising from pondering it. It's even slightly insulting and stereotyping of women, to think that somehow major events in their life are affected in significant ways by their menstruation.

SRD used leprosy as a disability that Covenant hung to as a crutch. And the effects of the Land's healing and TC denials where paramount. His acceptance of the Land only comes when he returns for the 3rd time. SRD used the books as an educational tool to educate many of us about the stigma of those afflicted. His writings about the treament Covenant received around Haven's Farm proves that.

Some estimates show that PMS affects from 70% to 90% of women at some time during their childbearing years. Also it is most common between the ages of 25-45. Exactly at the age where Linden was during her first visit to the land.

Surely SRD who had more knowledge than the averge person about Hanson's disease. He used that knowledge as a storyline. When I read the books 30 plus years ago I found myself able to understanding the afficted alot better than before.

Leprosy isn't as common as PMS but both can be very devastating. It could have been an additional use for SRD to tell his story of the human condition, both failing and triumps. Also it would have given insight why women who are afflicted act.

Well, that's like asking what if Linden had a Femoral Hernia, or IBS, or Tourette Syndrome...

Nice try at redemption, though.

I always wondered about womens cycles and the Sunbane. Lets just say I don't see the need for all the human sacrifices? You figure it out.

Sunbaneglasses wrote:I always wondered about womens cycles and the Sunbane. Lets just say I don't see the need for all the human sacrifices? You figure it out.

Sunbaneglasses wrote:I always wondered about womens cycles and the Sunbane. Lets just say I don't see the need for all the human sacrifices? You figure it out.

I was too much of a wimp to mention it.

This deserves a serious eye roll... "sudden case of PMS" indeed.

Men...

High Lord Tolkien wrote:

Sunbaneglasses wrote:I always wondered about womens cycles and the Sunbane. Lets just say I don't see the need for all the human sacrifices? You figure it out.

I was too much of a wimp to mention it.

Now we only have to find someone brave enough to ask it in the GI.

Sunbaneglasses wrote:I always wondered about womens cycles and the Sunbane. Lets just say I don't see the need for all the human sacrifices? You figure it out.

I have just been rereading the Second Chrons and wondering about that very issue.

From my anthropology classes I know that some cultures have women go into seclusion when they have their menses - a pretty good historical novel written about this theme is called The Red Tent - and I am wondering if this sort of seclusion might have taken place in the Second Chronicles Land, given how precious blood was to the people who lived there. While sort of gross to think about - I would think that most women would rather save their (ahem) used personal hygiene items for use by their local graveler than see their children or neighbors die. Not to mention how much blood is lost during child birth. Would the women give birth in the fields so the graveler could use the blood?

Or do women in the Land not have cycles as the women in our world do?

As a person with an interest in anthropology, I want to know!

And along similar lines, Linden never once worries because she does ( or does not) have her menses - which most women would probably at least consider, given the extreme survival with mostly/solely male companions scenario she undergoes during large portions of the story. Not to mention her never wondering if she can possibly get pregnant in the bizarre situation (living in a realistic "dream world" for months) she finds herself in once she becomes sexually active (well, she was in the same situation before the sex, but you guys probably know what I mean). We do spend quite a bit of time in her head - why no worry about these basic biological functions? She certainly worries quite a bit about other things.

The last time I read the One Tree I had the crazy idea that Linden had given birth to a child on the Starfare Gem. It was something to do with the quest taking a relatively short time to complete.
I must have dreamed that Findail hadn't know exactly where the Isle of the One Tree was (...as opposed to Honningscrave seeing the location at the Elohimfest...) and Findail had to search the heavens to track it down. Which took months instead of a few weeks. (...the dream was something to do with a dark blue sky sparkling with stars...).
So maybe those issues are there in the text if you took care to search for them!

Or maybe I'd been reading a different book!

Edit:
I picked up The Red Tent at a jumble sale a while ago. I really enjoy reading a book by a female author every once and while. I thought it would be fascinating to read a differant take on a bible story. I think it was on the second page of the prologue where it mentions what a red tent is and what it is used for. I closed the book, then a few minutes later I took it outside and chucked it the bin.
Some things are best left in the red tent.

Sunbaneglasses wrote:I always wondered about womens cycles and the Sunbane. Lets just say I don't see the need for all the human sacrifices? You figure it out.

Ouch! - Thas just not right.

I'm struggling a bit with this thread. I'm sort of with zarathustra on it I think. It makes me feel a bit uneasy and I don't somehow like the feel of it. No offence to ur-lord or any other contributors but I think I'm out of this one.

peter wrote:

Sunbaneglasses wrote:I always wondered about womens cycles and the Sunbane. Lets just say I don't see the need for all the human sacrifices? You figure it out.

Ouch! - Thas just not right.

I'm struggling a bit with this thread. I'm sort of with zarathustra on it I think. It makes me feel a bit uneasy and I don't somehow like the feel of it. No offence to ur-lord or any other contributors but I think I'm out of this one.

That's OK - while it is a basic (and unavoidable) biological thing most women go through regularly, it is most definitely sort of an "icky" subject to a lot of people. Even after nearly 25 years of marriage, my husband would still prefer me to go buy my own "supplies" when he is not along on the grocery shopping trip.

I do not know if Donaldson just never considered the subject, or if his editors would not let him talk about it.

But you could have interesting and serious debate on the matter - on whether or not women of childbearing age are revered in the Second Chrons Land because they provide a precious resource to their communities. Or whether it twists the other way (because humans are nothing if not perverse) and women are seen as some sort of cattle because they provide that resource. And how the community reacts to a girl reaching menarche or a woman reaching menopause. Joy? Partying in the first case - grief in the second?

And why Linden and/or Hollian would have been sacrificed when captured rather than kept alive as a valuable resource (of both monthly blood and a genetic outcross) by the villages that caught her/them.

(By the way, The Red Tent actually became a place of female bonding and friendship, as the four Jewish matriarchs in the a story got a few days of rest away from their husband and their duties every month when they had to go into seclusion with their menses. What sounds so unusual to us in western society actually was actually turned into a positive by the women practicing it. in that particular story anyway. And the seclusion of women during their periods is not particularly unusual in world cultures.)