Kevin's Watch

Let's start with: Starship Troopers, part I
...no connection to SRD? I don't think so...

wow ... a 'Yes' thread. cool.
And i just brought "The Ladder" to work to give it another listen throughout the day...

I. Life Seeker
(Anderson)

Sister Bluebird flying high above,
Shine your wings forward to the sun.
Hide the myst'ries of life on your way.
Though you've seen them, please don't say a word.
What you don't know, I have never heard.

Starship Trooper, go sailing on by,
Catch my soul, catch the very night.
Hide the moment from my eager eyes.
Though you've seen them, please don't tell a soul.
What you can't see, can't be very whole.

Speak to me of summer, long winters longer than time can remember,
Setting up of other roads, travel on in old accustomed ways.
I still remember the talks by the water, the proud sons and daughters that,
In the knowledge of the land, spoke to me in sweet accustomed ways.

Mother life, hold firmly on to me.
Catch my knowledge higher than the day.
Lose as much as only you can show.
Though you've seen them, please don't say a word.
What I don't know, I have never shared.

Great lyrics. I'm not one to praise lyrics, much, mainly because generally I don't find them interesting. Anderson always has wonderful lyrics, and this is no different. And the music just flows around them with elegance and beauty. Bruford's drumming is amazing... anyone else would have been clunky on this tune, but the confidence of his jazz-style drumming adds so much to this tune.
Love the first part of this song.

Yes is another one of those bands that I just don't get.

not sure I understand the notion of "getting" a band, however it is understandable if one does not like the type of music. It is not straight-up R&R, not jazz, ... it is progressive rock. And where some bands were bombastinc and inflated, to me Yes pulled it off honestly .... Anderson beleives the feelings and lyrics he sings, and many of the band members over the years have added fantastic music with their genuine talent.
It is music you have to listen to, in teh same way one might listen to some of the classical recordings ...

my

I dunno, I think Yes defines bloated, self-indulgent music.

I'm not doubting the talent of the members; Chris Squire is one Hell of a bassist, and Rick Wakeman is brilliant, but their music just seems to drone on and on and on....

Except for the pop schlock they slung out during the '80s.

Name me one band who's signed to a record label that's not self-indulgent, Cail. Shit, talk about an over-used term.....every band out there is in it for something, and every musician plods along, seeking the right band, the right sound, the right circumstance, to get that something they want out of it. To me, that's self-indulgent, and I know that I fit that description.

I have no idea how to wake up this morning-I guess I was being too self indulgent last night-

IMHO. The term self indulgent, as it refers in this case, defines musical honesty. I personally don't care for music that meanders unendingly to the delight of the musician but not necessarily to the audience but it’s undeniably honest. The performer is doing what he/she wants, the way he/she wants and he/she isn't interested in making the top 40 charts or being world renowned popular, he/she just wants to make music their way. But on rare occasions such music finds it's way into the mainstream and then we have discussions like these.

I absolutely love Yes. Starship Trooper is my favorite Yes song. I love how it ends with the slow build to those gorgeous guitar melodies.

I can see how some may not get them. Even the term, "self-indulgent" may be applicable to some of their work. However, I think they try to indulge the listener a lot more than early Crimson (10 minutes of meandering improvisation and sound effects? Come on), most of ELP, or even early Floyd (Ummagumma is ridiculous).

Yes has got some classic "radio-friendly" hits--a lot of them way before Owner of Lonely Heart. I think if you can sing along with it, it can't be too self-indulgent. Long Distance Runaround, I've Seen All Good People, Roundabout, Starship Troopers, Wondrous Stories . . . these all have beautiful, easily recognizable melodies that invite one to sing along.

My love for Yes is well-documented here at the Watch. I was into them before discovering SRD, but since reading LFB I've always heard this line from ST differently...

Jon wrote:the proud sons and daughters that, In the knowledge of the land, spoke to me in sweet accustomed ways.

always makes me think of Atiaran and Lena

ST was my first favorite Yes song, but it's changed so many times I don't know what it would be now. Probably The Gates of Deleriium... or Perpetual Change... or ...

Hey, I didn't mean to poop in anyone's cornflakes.

I don't like Yes for the same reasons I don't like jam bands. I don't want to hear a 20-minute keyboard solo that meanders all over the place. Sure, it may be honest, and I certainly appreciate the skill that goes into it, but overlong solos (from any instrument) or extended jam sessions usually bore me.

Yes's music simply doesn't speak to me. As good as the individual musicians may be (and I'd say Chris Squire is in the top 5 bassists and Rick Wakeman is in the top 5 ivory ticklers), a great majority of their work sounds like a bunch of virtuosos smoking it up real good, then trying to see who can play the most notes for the longest amount of time.

It's the same reason I can't listen to "YYZ" or "Moby Dick" all the way through.

Cail wrote:Hey, I didn't mean to poop in anyone's cornflakes.

I don't like Yes for the same reasons I don't like jam bands. I don't want to hear a 20-minute keyboard solo that meanders all over the place. Sure, it may be honest, and I certainly appreciate the skill that goes into it, but overlong solos (from any instrument) or extended jam sessions usually bore me.

Yes's music simply doesn't speak to me. As good as the individual musicians may be (and I'd say Chris Squire is in the top 5 bassists and Rick Wakeman is in the top 5 ivory ticklers), a great majority of their work sounds like a bunch of virtuosos smoking it up real good, then trying to see who can play the most notes for the longest amount of time.

It's the same reason I can't listen to "YYZ" or "Moby Dick" all the way through.

Cornflakes? Jam? Smoking? Why are you talking about my breakfast? Are you WATCHING ME?

YYZ isn't very long (3 min?), doesn't meander all over the place, and it has definite beginning, verse, bridge, solo, (etc.) structure. It's like a "regular" song, just without lyrics. They let their instruments do the singing. Hell, on the Rush in Rio DVD, the crowd is actually singing along with this instrumental. You certainly can't sing along with any Yes instrumental.

Maybe you're thinking of La Villa Strangiato. That one does meander a bit, but it's still nothing like a Yes keyboard solo. It's not just a bunch of notes--which I admit can get a little boring. There are definite parts, structures. Nothing at all like "jam band" stuff.

I agree with you that meandering notes, played only to see how fast or how many you can get in, is boring.

Do you like any instrumentals? Or any jazz or classical? What about guitar solos in the middle of a song with lyrics? Really, your complaint could be made about most guitar solos ever played. Is it merely an issue of duration? If a guitar solo can be good, then all three (bass, guitar, drums) jamming together has the potential to be even better.

Cail wrote:Hey, I didn't mean to poop in anyone's cornflakes.

I don't like Yes for the same reasons I don't like jam bands. I don't want to hear a 20-minute keyboard solo that meanders all over the place. Sure, it may be honest, and I certainly appreciate the skill that goes into it, but overlong solos (from any instrument) or extended jam sessions usually bore me.

Yes's music simply doesn't speak to me. As good as the individual musicians may be (and I'd say Chris Squire is in the top 5 bassists and Rick Wakeman is in the top 5 ivory ticklers), a great majority of their work sounds like a bunch of virtuosos smoking it up real good, then trying to see who can play the most notes for the longest amount of time.

It's the same reason I can't listen to "YYZ" or "Moby Dick" all the way through.

This is probably the one area where Cail and I are in utter agreement. I don't hold anyone's tastes in contempt (Except for you Toby Kieth lovers!), but I have got to say that YES, ELP and their ilk just don't reach me. The endless jamming just grates on me. I can recognize the talent there...it just ain't my cup o' meat. A lot of people feel the same way about Dylan I suppose.

Well, you and Cail are certainly entitled to your opinions. Simplicity certainly has it merits. And without any structure whatsoever, music would just be noise.

While overly complex music can be boring, the same can be said for overly simplistic, formulaic music. After a while, I just get tired of the same verse, chorus, verse chorus structure.

I like music that challenges me to "get it." I like a musical puzzle that invites exploration. With that said, however, I can't stand most of ELP, either.

Malik23 wrote:

I like music that challenges me to "get it." I like a musical puzzle that invites exploration. With that said, however, I can't stand most of ELP, either.

THAT is why I like Roger Waters, Todd Rungren, and Brian Eno.

"La Villa Strangiato" is awesome.

Last time I saw Rush, "YYZ" was 20 minutes.

There are very few artists that can pull off a credible (to me) instrumental, because it seems that most of them forget that it's still gotta be a song. Andy Summers really got it on "The Golden Wire". Vai's done it a couple of times.

Guitar solos-They should say something. Many don't. Most of EVH's solos are crap (to me) because they're a flurry of notes or sounds with no direction. The song "Summer Nights" is a perfect example of this. Awesome riff, great bridge, and then what? A bunch of garbage tremolo-yanking. Utter shite.

But back to the question at hand. Oftentimes with really gifted players (Wakeman, Emmerson, Peart, Hendrix, even Page in the mid-'70s) there's a tendency to get so far out there that they're not playing anything coherent. I've seen Wakeman live, and I swear to God he'd bought a new synthesizer that day and was simply fooling with the settings for his half-hour solo.

Edit-I too like challenging music, but stuff like Yes and ELP (or Phish, or The Dead) just seems pointless. I'll also add that I've never read an ELP, Yes, Dead, or Phish lyric that I've liked, so I'm sure that's part of it as well.

Oh, except for "From the Beginning" by ELP.

Look, basically there's no accounting for taste, which is why there are so many diverse musical styles.

Embarrassing Cail Example:

I think "Turn Up the Radio" by Autograph is an awesome song, and even though it's consistently ranked as one of the 5 worst, I think the guitar solo is one of my favorites. Why? Because it's a rock song about turning up the radio to listen to a rock song. It's fun, it's catchy, and the solo sounds like absolute joy. Seriously, if I had to assign a sound to the emotion "joy", it'd be that solo. I've heard the damn thing hundreds of times over the last 25 years or so, and it still makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

Now, I'm not going to tell you that Autograph is the second coming, nor that you just don't get them. But I will say that I'd rather listen to "Turn Up the Radio" or Def Leppard's "Armageddon It" (which has arguably the most nonsensical lyrics ever penned) than anything by Yes, ELP, The Dead, or Phish.

Cail, you and I probably won't ever be going to a concert together

I love jambands, but I agree that some of them can get overly boring when it becomes just wanking over some chord pattern. But the good ones like Phish, String Cheese Incident, or Umphrey's McGee (who are really a prog band in disguise) go well beyond jamming. Phish was very prog-ish in their earlier days too. I don't expect this to convince anyone...

Musical taste is one of those things that just can't be explained rationally. For example, I can't understand why you'd love "La Villa" and not YYZ. But that's how it goes. I have lots of similar paradoxes in my own tastes. (oh, no, not paradoxes again!

edit to add - Cail, you just said the same thing I did about tastes. And I would say I hate stuff like Autograph, but when it comes on, I turn it up too

Gah! I can't stand Phish or the Dead ...
let's get back to Yes....


I love 'jam' bands. I'm not one for lyrics in general, more int he sound of the vocal. Anderson is perfect for the music Yes is trying to emote.

(on a side note: I LOVE Crimso, but am not a fan of Belew's song voice. The lyrics are pretty entertaining - but I wish Wetton was singing them)

The Trevor rabin period of Yes was the most popular of the modern area, but that is because audiences veered away from 'complex' written music, and more 'pop' sound. 90125 was Rabin's baby pretty much, with enough Anderson stuff and sound added to make it "Yes"...

A good instrumental is my blood for music, from Mozart to Crimson. Repetetiveness is not my idea of a great instrumental. I need layers and depth.