Kevin's Watch

Who else thinks the bloodguard have a lot to answer for?

Their Vow screwed a hell of a lot of things up for people. Firstly, they abandoned their families.

Then they made Kevin feel like he wasn't good enough and I'm sure it says somewhere that he disagreed with them making the Vow in the first place. It seems like it contributed to his desperation and made him take extreme action ie the desecration.

They then basically made everyone feel inferior in the time of the new lords because of their unfailing devotion and the fact they had sacrificed so much and yet still stood firm, must have made other people feel like failures. As much as they kept harping on about the fact they didnt judge, they judged EVERYONE! Even Kevin.

Then when they failed in TPTP they pathetically abandoned the whole thing. Why such extremes? Why couldnt they try and make up for the fact that they had messed up and admit they were fallible as well?

the Haruchai in 2nd chrons were even worse.

I understand they were 'moved' and 'awed' by the sights they saw, but that didn't stop them looking down on everyone and everything else. And why the Vow? They couldve sworn to serve the Land/Lords/Kevin without being so extravagant and ruining a lot of lives!

It just seems to me that the Bloodguard/Haruchai were involved in a lot of the bad things that happened in the world and although I know bad things in the chrons can lead to greater blessings, it irritates me that they ALWAYS maintained they were so wonderful and always in the right.

I think the Haruchai are representative of Zealots of all kinds. People who see everything as Black or White, no matter what. And they're sort of a warning about where that can lead you.

Of course there is the other extreme where you are too in the middle and dont have opinions in either direction. I think that can be just as dangerous.

The Haruchai were there to protect the Land from the Lords, not the Lords from the Land.

i dont think that was entirely true in the beginning. ALL the sights they saw were enough to make them swear the Vow however they were fiercely loyal to Kevin and indeed the other lords and wouldve happily let a forest burn to save Kevin's life.[/spoiler]

I can't remember the specifics but I'm sure they gave up 'The Vow' beause they realised it was inherently paradoxical. They couldn't be true to all aspects of it, so it made sense for them to set it aside. I also think it's a little harsh to blame them for the inability of the Lords/Kevin to match their devotion to The Land.

If there's one thing that SRD ever said that pertains to the Vow, it is: Every weakness is a strength misapplied, and every strength is a weakness which has found its proper use.

The Vow was a very good thing, and it served the Land more than it harmed it. But there were places and times where it was a weakness. The most serious weaknesses were when faced by Corruption, but what isn't weak at that time? The Haruchai thought the Vow would somehow stand up to Foul, but it did not; that's a matter of setting expectations, as everything fails before Foul.

Okay, just for fun; what would the Bloodguard do if a Lord flipped out, and tried to attack another lord?

Like if Prothal got pissed off at variol for something, ignored his own oath, and started running at Variol...? Obviously Vriol's Bloodguard would deffend his lord, but then, wouldn't Prothal's Bloodguard counter that deffence...?

Marvin wrote:I also think it's a little harsh to blame them for the inability of the Lords/Kevin to match their devotion to The Land.

No harsher than the way they blamed/judged everyone else for not matching their devotion.

drew wrote:Okay, just for fun; what would the Bloodguard do if a Lord flipped out, and tried to attack another lord?

Like if Prothal got pissed off at variol for something, ignored his own oath, and started running at Variol...? Obviously Vriol's Bloodguard would deffend his lord, but then, wouldn't Prothal's Bloodguard counter that deffence...?

As I recall.. At some point Bannor was assigned to ward TC and when he tried to attack a Lord he was stopped by his own protector (Bannor) and Bannor said something to the effect of "we dont allow any harm to befall a Lord" Im of course paraphrasing.

So probably the bloodguard that were assigned to the Lord would stop their own ward.

KAY1 wrote:Then they made Kevin feel like he wasn't good enough and I'm sure it says somewhere that he disagreed with them making the Vow in the first place.

I think Gilden Fire mentions Kevin's hesitance to accept the aid offered by the Bloodguard.

KAY1 wrote:It seems like it contributed to his desperation and made him take extreme action ie the desecration.

This is the same argument Linden makes against the Bloodguard in TOT, but I don't think it's fair to blame them for the fact that Kevin feels unworthy of their service. They're judgmental, but I doubt they went around blatantly questioning Kevin's decisions at every turn -- they didn't intentionally undermine him or call him weak. I realize that the service they provided was probably intimidating because it's pretty impossible for anyone else to live up to it, but it's not their fault if other people can't match them. They shouldn't have to compromise their service just because it's making inferior people feel uncomfortable.

KAY1 wrote: Then when they failed in TPTP they pathetically abandoned the whole thing. Why such extremes? Why couldnt they try and make up for the fact that they had messed up and admit they were fallible as well?

Well, they did admit that they were fallible. Bannor admits that the Vow was a mistake -- it was overly extravagant. Personally, I can kind of understand why they abandoned it. The Vow had upheld them for 2000 years, and it had been Corrupted. Experiencing that kind of disillusionment after 2000 years of hard work seems like the kind of mental/emotional blow that would force anyone into retirement. That had to be above and beyond depressing. Some people might have killed themselves; the Haruchai just said "screw it."

Of course, I have trouble criticizing the Haruchai at all (in the 1st and 2nd Chronicles) because they're so ridiculously awesome.

Of course, I have trouble criticizing the Haruchai at all (in the 1st and 2nd Chronicles) because they're so ridiculously awesome.

Word.
So they're a *tiny* bit extreme ... and they're a *wee* bit judgemental .. and they have the emotional range of Mr. Spock (well, on the surface anyway) .. But like Stormrider said, they're so fricken awesome that I tend to forgive them their rigid ways ..

My favourite Haruchai/Bloodguard moment :

Brinn : "let her speak the name of a Sandgorgon."

Now that's taking 'an eye for an eye' to extremes !!

They have a one tracked minds.

SleeplessOne wrote: My favourite Haruchai/Bloodguard moment :

Brinn : "let her speak the name of a Sandgorgon."

Oh yes, it was undoubtedly Brinn's finest hour.

"WE WILL SUFFICE!!"

Yeah! Bollocks!

*shrugs margainally*

drew wrote:Okay, just for fun; what would the Bloodguard do if a Lord flipped out, and tried to attack another lord?

Like if Prothal got pissed off at variol for something, ignored his own oath, and started running at Variol...? Obviously Vriol's Bloodguard would deffend his lord, but then, wouldn't Prothal's Bloodguard counter that deffence...?

Another possibility is that in extremis, that a Bloodguard might be forced to kill his own assigned Lord if no other recourse was available.

Not an perfect example by any means, but I remember in "The Illearth War" Lord Verement was confronting a Raver; he was being compelled to say the that he worshiped Lord Foul. Lord Verement was killed by his assigned Bloodguard to prevent the Lord from being compelled to utter that he worshipped Lord Foul.

I think that his Bloodguard was under orders to kill Ver before he did anything to harsh (like swear feality to Foul); Kind of the exact opposite to what Kevin did to them..he ordered them to stay away, and let him do his business...Ver orered his BG to stick around, and kill him if need be.

Drew said:

I think that his Bloodguard was under orders to kill Ver before he did anything to harsh (like swear feality to Foul); Kind of the exact opposite to what Kevin did to them..he ordered them to stay away, and let him do his business...Ver orered his BG to stick around, and kill him if need be.

Nah, I doubt he has specific order to watch Veremont and take him out if he flaked out; I think the bloodguard , in their service to the Lords, knew that the Lords who had sworn service to the land would never want to be so compelled by Foul. Veremont probably wasnt thinking too clearly, because of his grief. He wanted a chance to die in service to the Land, and took the opportunity to accomplish both. I doubt he considered the ability of the Giant Raver to compel him to service, I dont think he initially expected to get that close to the giant; He just wanted to tend his Word of Power until it gave way then expected to die in the onrush..

Also, think of the damage Veremont could do in Foul's service; in his grief over the Loss of Shetra his wife, which is why he stood behind in the first place -- Foul would have twisted that grief and used it utterly to drive him to extremes , such as the extremes Trell was driven to on his own. The bloodguard know about extremes, and having such long service, it isnt a great leap of imagination to say the BG could immediately see the consequences of Veremont being complelled to service.

No, the bloodguard had been around a long time, and knew what he was doing when he slew Veremont, and didnt need specific orders to know what sufficed.