Kevin's Watch

Okay I was just idling thinking at the job instead of working, and something rather fun occured to me.

Parallels between Buffy the Vampire Slayer and the Harry Potter novels.

Some are really easy. You have the obvious reluctant hero (Buffy/Harry) with powers and responsibilities they'd rather not have. There's a humorous sidekick (Xander/Ron) who's not exactly the sharpest pencil in the box but has a good heart. And then there's a female best friend (Willow/Hermione) who's almost too sharp for words. At least initially, the stories of both take place in school, with each season/book matching a grade in same. Parallels between Giles/Dumbledore, Snyder/Snape, Cordelia/Draco are also pretty obvious.

Now look at the individual seasons/books. In S1/CoS, we have a new arrival at school. The major threat is the return of a great evil now rendered near-impotent (The Master/Voldemort).

In S2/CoS, the threat is of a shadow of an evil from the past (Angelus/Tom Riddle), with accusations increasingly aimed at the hero (Buffy's school troubles/Harry assumed to be the Heir of Slytherin). The best friend ends up in the hospital, but provides an essential bit of information. Mind control of one of the hero's circle features in both, along with an old secret that must be uncovered and understood. It isn't too hard to see some parallels between Drusilla and Moaning Myrtle.

Then comes S3/PoA, in which someone on the inside of the hero's circle turns out to be an enemy (Faith/Scabbers) while the circle also becomes wracked by internal dissent (vis-a-vis Angel/Hermione's cat). The real enemy in the end, the one that must be stopped, is authority (the Mayor/Ministry of Magic).

In S4, GoF, we meet those completely outside the circle but similar (the Initiative/students from other schools), while our hero tries to develop a romantic interest from another group (Riley/Cho). The climax involves treason on the part of someone who's an ally (Spike/Mad Moody), a resurrected evil (Voldemort/Adam), a refusal by the authorities to admit to a problem (Initiative/Cornelius Fudge), coupled with an obscure piece of magic being the deciding factor (the unity spell/Harry & Voldemort's wands interacting).

Hmmmmmm.

Now look at S5/OotP. Familial conflict is all over the place, from the Blacks to the Mclays and the Weaselys plus the Summers. Conflict with authority (the Watchers/the Ministry of Magic) is essential to both, with our hero's circle being vindicated in the end. Just as Joyce dies, so does Harry's godfather. One of the villains of both is a ruthless woman of great power with lots of little minions (Glory/Dolores Umbridge). Both Buffy and Harry undergo official "trials." Misguided authority figures target the wrong people (Knights of Byzantium/Ministry of Magic). A "good" person finds himself sharing thoughts and feelings with a "bad" one. Confusion over identity--who is the Key/who was prophesied to defeat Voldemort--is a vital question is both.

With that in mind, what might the next two HP books hold, given how the last two seasons of Buffy turned out? Hmmmm?

There are similarities, and I'd say you'd have to ask The Man, Joss Whedon, who wrote and directed all the stuff for Buffy. Most of it can be deemed purely coincidental, though. By the way, the reluctant hero is a staple in the spine of modern fiction, and it’s probably the most-used character template. So, Potter didn’t start the trend, by any means. Probably Tolkien’s Bilbo Baggins, maybe. Or Hamlet.

Hm, the next two books? Well, judging from Buffy's last two seasons, Potter will die, come back from the dead, have sex with Spike, and then fight the First Evil.

Here's a similarity for you - they're both crap!

Ok, ok, maybe that was a little harsh ...but i do think that both Harry and Buffy are mass-produced, crowd-pleasing stuff with little or no 'original' content, designed to lighten our wallets first and foremost.

P.S> please don't kill me...

I actually kinda agree with you there, EF. HP and Buffy are rather crappy.

(I'm a Raver, I can't be killed. Nah nah!)

Crowd-pleasing?! It's one of the most unappreciated shows! You watch the season 5 episode "The Body" and then come back and tell me it's mass-produced.

And let me guess that neither of you have ever watched the show or read Harry Potter. Easy to form opinions, huh! You two would do well at going, "Hey; I hate spaghetti, even though I’ve never tasted it!" Damn, dragged me back, but I won't let you so easily dismiss the Buffster!

Buffy the Vampire Slayer was a wonderful TV show that explored the emotional lives of its cast of characters to a degree rarely seen in any form of visual entertainment, while cleverly disguising those explorations beneath chop-socky action sequences.

I have seen every episode of Buffy, and I have read the HP books and seen the HP movies too. I just don't like either of them. So there!

Spoiler

And I think Buffy is a complete idiot as well.

Okay, you don't like them, but does that make the show inherently bad? I mean, you coulda said, "Well, I, personally, don't enjoy the show." But no, not even that! There are other characters, as well. I find Buffy to be less-than-stellar, but that's one of the things that makes the show so great: the other characters, such as Willow, Xander, Angel, Spike, etc. And why'd you watch every episode if you didn't like it?

Ok, fine. "I personally don't like the show."

edit- And I don't know. I was trying to learn to like it, I guess.

Much better. I'm off, now.

Eh, I hate the show. Then again, I've only seen about three episodes.

Personally, I don't even really watch it--in the sense of sitting on a couch for an hour or two. I like to turn it on and get on the computer and write. It's sort of a soothing background noise to me, like Pink Floyd music. If someone can point me out a more intelligent, character-oriented show, I’ll gladly turn to it instead. And I’m sure there are others out there, perhaps, but I’ve simply yet to find them in the scant time I’ve watched the tele.

Foul! Nice to see you again! (And where's my WGD's?! )

Interesting comparison, zahir. I've only read the first HP, so I'll take your word for it.

After mulling the thought over for a bit, I've decided that I will add to the debate. But I'll just say that the message sometimes gets lost in the method of communication. Another good example is Shelly from Northern Exposure. Just because she uses her nipples as an analogy, doesn't mean she's not absolutely right, and darned smart.

My favorite Buffy episode is "Fool For Love". I didn't know the title until I just looked it up, so, for those of you who also don't know, it's where Buffy forces Spike to tell her how he killed two previous Slayers.

Man, I GOT to see that episode. When I do, it'll probably end up being my favorite. Angel was great, but I liked Spike more.

That is a great episode. I'm really looking forward to finding out how they introduce Spike next season on Angel.

Uh...I just wanna get this straight. You doesn't like a show, so you watch every single episode in a seven-year run? And you don't like this series of books, so you read each and every one? When you like something do you avoid it like the plague? Or do you vote for the candidate you don't want in office? By any chance, do you say "Hello" when leaving a room?

LOL, he said it not me, Turiya

Buffy-ites Unite!

Actually, Oh Foul One, it was i who voiced my dislike of HP and Buffy - Turiya agreed with me.

And like Turiya, i have seen many episodes of Buffy and read four of the Potter books. Perhaps youve not heard the phrase, 'Know thy enemy'? Just because i don't like a thing, doesn't mean i will avoid it. (all the better to lampoon you, my dear! )

I would also argue that a show that lasted 5 seasons, plus generated a continuing successful spin-off show, can hardly be called 'unappreciated'.

But as you so rightly say, it is merely background noise. I mean, even you, Lord Foul, who has chosen to champion Buffy, don't actually sit down and watch a show - and i quote, 'Personally, I don't even watch it-in the sense of sitting on a couch for an hour or two. I like to turn it on and get on the computer and write.'

Eh, as I've said before, I've tried to watch the show (several eps), but couldn't get past the main character. All I can say is that it's a little deeper than the movie from which it spun off (try not ending that sentence in a preposition!).

I haven't read Potter, but it has spurned such debates as these (and, coincidentally, there's some Buffy mentioned).

If you're looking for a good, character driven (sci-fi) show, try Farscape. Yeah, it's cancelled, but there are DVDs out there and you can DL the eps if you were so inclined. The aforementioned Northern Exposure is also good.

Well, I only said that cause I was cornered by, um, Buffy-haterers. Anyway, when it's on, I know what's going on, and it is a background noise, but if something interesting happens, I'll turn my head to it and watch.

And yeah, I know that phrase, but God help me the day I apply it to *NSYNC!

Lord Foul wrote:And yeah, I know that phrase, but God help me the day I apply it to *NSYNC!

Well I'm a Buffy lover and watcher. I think I missed a couple episodes now and then, but not intentionally. It's been one of the only shows I MUST see. Good fights, fun occult, witty, babes. I just don't see the downside. But I guess that's where "to each his own" comes into play.

Hey Foul, did you see when Glory knocked the Buffy-bot's head off? Priceless look on her face! "The Slayer's a robot?? Did everybody know the Slayer's a robot??"

And for the thought-provoking philosophy, Northern Exposure does it for me like TCTC. For the more Eastern, accepting, calm, deep philosophy, the original Kung Fu series does it for me like Earthsea.