Kevin's Watch

Back before anything about the Last Chronicles came out, I had always hoped that we'd see a decent Roger Covenant who might actually have a starring role as a protagonist in the Land. I think it would have been interesting to have had a sane-- if somewhat troubled-- Roger come to the Land and reconcile his image of his father as someone who was never part of his life and left him in the hands of a nutty mother with the fabled Halfhanded hero of the Land ...

It's also rather sad to think that Covenant's life and family ended in absolute tragedy.

Prior to ROTE, I never gave Roger a moment's thought, so I was surprised to see him at all. But, meeting him in the prologue, I can't say that I'm at all disappointed (or surprised, for that matter) at how he turned out. As he says in chapter 5 (paraphrasing): "I'm the son of a leper and a victim."

During the 80s, once the Second Chronicles was done, I often speculated that SRD could use Roger as a protagonist, inheriting his father's ring and struggles.

To some degree, I was dismayed to see Roger in the role of a villain and puppet for Foul, but I trust Donaldson knows what he's doing with the characters.

And besides, using Roger to simply take Covenant's role is unoriginal, and seems aimed more at an Eddings-like "telling the same story, just switching out the names" approach than something SRD would do.

As messed up a childhood as Roger apparently had with his mother and the cult (and Joan's parents, his later guardians didn't sound like saints either) I rather suspected he'd turn out bad. Though maybe in a redeemable Linden sort of way, not in a villainous Kasreyn sort of way. After the murders in the Prologue I don't see how that could happen now, unless he does a Darth Vader and sacrifices himself in the end.

The whole 'Roger' character kinda confuses me a bit.....I mean what exactly happened to him? What made him such a jerk? I guess we'll all find out as the series progresses, but really....you can't really feel sorry for him simply because of his parents splitting up especially when you consider the issues that Linden has with her parents. He seems older than he is (only 21) based on his dialog....I don't know. With as much time as SRD spends on character development, I do find Roger's character lacking in that department.....and let's not even talk about Joan.......I know this is Fantasy, but Joan smacking herself in the face is what's causing the caesures.....???....Hmmmm?

Roger is a jerk because he's absolutely insane.

dlbpharmd wrote:Roger is a jerk because he's absolutely insane.

Yes, without question, but it would be good to know why he is insane. Plenty of people have rotten family backgrounds and come out of that somewhat OK.

duchess of malfi wrote:

dlbpharmd wrote:Roger is a jerk because he's absolutely insane.

Yes, without question, but it would be good to know why he is insane. Plenty of people have rotten family backgrounds and come out of that somewhat OK.

I don't see the story heading in that direction; but I think it's plausible that the roots of his insanity sprang from his upbringing in the Community of Retribution and the heavy influence of his equally deranged mother.

Roger is one of the most interesting characters in the Chronicles I believe.
It's not just him, and the little that we know of him, but how TC will react to him.
He is TC's son.
We keep expecting Linden to choose Jeremiah over the Land but I think the choice that TC will have to make (provided SRD writes it this way) will be to save the Land (or some aspect of the Land) or his son.
And that will be one powerful read!

I think Roger is a weak person who is ruled by his fears, and who has been subjected to Lord Foul's manipulations for a long time.

If he was insane, what he did would not be his own fault.

I agree with WF, I mean if you think back to the WL, at the beginning, all those people putting their hands in the fire had to be manipulated by Foul somehow, if he could have a strong enough hold on those people to make them and their children torture themselves like that. I realize that many of these people were probably at least a little unstable to begin with, (like Joan wasn't after leaving her husband). Roger and Joan could have easily been susceptible to Foul's machinations after what she had been through herself, and subsequently put her son through. All the time spent with religious cults and tormenting herself with grief. Nothing the Despiser likes better than a little self-despite, and Joan was full of it, and so, left that legacy to her son. Roger tells Linden in the hospital "if she failed I would have to take her place" - that should be a big clue that Foul's had his hand on Roger for quite a long time. And who is to say that if Foul can reach into the "real world" and torment Joan, that he couldn't have one of his Ravers do the same?

I dont know if we will find out much about Rogers past, we would have to have a first person view of the story from Rogers perspective to have him remember any of his past unless Joan for some reason is questioned about him. or maybe even if Linden finds him in the land and questions him he may tell her before he tries to take her to foul or kill her or whatever hes doing in the land.. maybe Roger is actually in the whole thing for himself now..and when or if he gets Joans Ring..could there be a wild magic against wild magic battle???

High Lord Tolkien wrote:It's not just him, and the little that we know of him, but how TC will react to him. He is TC's son.

I think Roger's situation as it pertains to TC is very consistent with TCTC themes. What could cause greater despair to a parent than to have your child end up in Roger's situation? As a parent I can say that I always worry.

Perhaps Foul can leverage TC using Roger (like he did with Joan) as much as he can leverage Linden with her adopted son. Maybe he got Roger involved in anticipation of the TC plot in FR.

I definitely forsee some sort of parallelling with the two storylines.

I think Roger's purpose in the story is really about how it affects Covenant, it's not to tell Roger's story. Jeremiah and Roger (and Joan) represent just how deeply Covenant and Linden are getting pulled into the Land's defense. Their families, their legacy, is at stake.

It's also obvious that Jeremiah and Roger will foil each other somehow (in the literary sense) in some future installment. One whose incapacity makes him a pure victim; one whose mendacity makes him a pure villian.

Roger is a product of Foul's influence on Joan. She depended on Thomas quite abit and Foul used that depedance to drive Joan crazy. It was within Roger's early years that Joan, who blame TC for being sick, may have implanted a hatrad of Thomas because he wasn't there. It's been said that show me the child at age 5 and I shall show you the man.

That phrase is more true than protrayed in the books. I have seen real life destructions of people when the wife hates the father and takes it out on the child. It's not in all cases but the tendencies do happen. Unfortune as it really is, it's a reflection the last Chronicles.

I almost view Roger as a kind of anti-hero. Sure, he's willing a villian of sorts, but I also believe that it is possible that he is doing this for his mother....

Evidence will also support that he's just a meglomaniac, but I like to think there is some "good" in all the characters... makes for more interesting conflicts later on

Orlion wrote: Evidence will also support that he's just a meglomaniac, but I like to think there is some "good" in all the characters... makes for more interesting conflicts later on

Speaking of which, I know he'll never write it, but I'd still love to see The Chronicles of Lord Foul the Despiser

Rigel wrote:

Orlion wrote: Evidence will also support that he's just a meglomaniac, but I like to think there is some "good" in all the characters... makes for more interesting conflicts later on

Speaking of which, I know he'll never write it, but I'd still love to see The Chronicles of Lord Foul the Despiser

Now that would be an interesting read!

I'd love to read a chapter from Foul's point of view.