Kevin's Watch

I finally convinced my sister to read LFB, since I feel that the Chronicles are one of the very best series of books out there if you like Fantasy. Well, she hates it. I think the Lords and Eoman are on their way from the Plains of Ra to Mount Thunder where she is, and she's told me she has no intention of reading anymore books. This makes me very sad

I was afraid Lena's rape was going to turn her off from the books, and boy did it ever. Understandably she despises Covenant (I told her that's what Foul wants her to think, but she didn't care). I can't really blame her, I remember the first time I read the books I hated him too--I imagine everyone does. But ever since Lena she flat out won't give TC a chance--I told her, look, it happened for a reason, it's important to the story, and it's not like TC is your typical 'heroic' protaganist (I told her honestly he's almost the antagonist in the books).

And that's not the only reason. She doesn't like the way Donaldson writes. Which I find ironic, seeing as she is a big Stephen King fan (hey, let's dedicate a whole parpagraph to what kind of fart the Gunslinger is about to squeeze out), and she loved the Golden Compass books (average at best IMO). She has a problem with TC's vertigo, because she has vertigo too. Not the heights vertigo like he has, but the random, omg I want to die dizzy vertigo that just comes up on her whenever. But she complains that Donaldson describes everything with vertigo.

But anyway, I digress. Any advice on anything I can say to make her change her mind? I really hate to give up, because the books are so moving and poignant, but I really don't see getting her to read anymore of them--TC's rape of Lena just murdered any chance of it.

First post btw

Hello LD and welcome to the Watch.

Perhaps just give her time - any amount of time. She may still come back to TCTC, perhaps after a few years even. Or make her read Mordant's Need first, it's a softer and gentler introduction to SRD and no less good.

Maybe even that won't work - some just don't like the way SRD tackles his demons. Some cannot stomach his certainly baroque writing style.

I hated TC, too, but for me hating a character is not the same as hating the book. But we all differ - I just remember how many times I read that people just couldn't get past the first 100 pages of the Fellowship of the Ring, whereas I just loved to immerse myself in the Shire and the Hobbits' wanderings.

Yeah, that LOTR trilogy is super cool, if you skip the hobbit and can make it through that s-l-o-w first book.

My wife has yet to read any Donaldson, though she has promised to do so on several occasions, and at one point I even started reading LFB to her (TCTC do not read well out loud, imho). Fantasy is not her cup of tea, and despite - or perhaps because of - my quiet but constant promotion of all things SRD, she just hasn't buckled down yet.

I still have hope, though.

dw

Wellcome to the Watch!

And... well, that's just the way it is. Some people love it, some hate it.

Have her read the second book first and see if that helps. Some people cant stand the time it takes to build a story. The second book is faster paced and if she reads the prologue she will have enough of an idea of what happened in the first book to not be lost in the second.

Im trying this method on my daughter now to see if it works. She had the same reaction to LFB. She loves to read so I cant imagine her not liking these books.

I tried to get a good friend to read the series, but she is a big LOTR fan, and could see nothing in LFB but the similarities to LOTR and couldn't get past them. I tried to point out, that TCTC goes into an entirely different (and in my opinion DEEPER) examination of the nature of morality/humanity/guilt/sacrifice, etc. but she still gave up without even finishing LFB. Of course this was soon after the first LOTR movie came out, when public consciousness was high and hype higher.

So I have cut her out of my life..... just kidding. Our friendship survived. I have just introduced the series to someone else - not even much of a fantasy fan - we'll see how that goes.

Oh, and BTW, if your sister doesn't like TC's behavior, wait until she catches a glimpse of Angus Thermopyle.

-ss

I've never bothered to encourage any of my friends/family to read SRD. Covenenat, especially, isn't for everyone. It's really a pity that Lord Foul's Bane is the first book in the series. Don't get me wrong -- I love that book -- but it's a difficult read. And I'm not just talking about the subject matter -- the writing style is unusual and, if you're not used to it, somewhat awkward. The obscure words aren't even the biggest problem; after all, you can look that stuff up in a dictionary. The main issue (for me) is his superfluous use of metaphors and similes (especially the latter). Some of them are absolutely absurd. I'm the kind of person who tries to picture everything the author describes, and I was about 12 or 13 when I first read LFB. I vividly remember sitting there, struggling to create a visual image of some of those bizarre similes. Sometimes they don't even make much sense. I think in one book he describes Linden's hands as hanging by her sides "like strangers." Weird. He does that in all of his books, but it’s VERY prominent in LFB. The “readability” of that particular book is not as good as the readability of his others.

And I liked Covenant from the beginning. Despite the rape, I loved his character. In my opinion, he was too fascinating to dislike. Besides, when he raped Lena, he was still convinced he was dreaming. So I had trouble holding a grudge against him for that. And he paid for it with a lot of suffering.

You may not believe it but I think your sis really loves to read.

If a book that is most probably twice her age can inflict the emotions at this time. Donnelson has done what he expected to do.
I believe she will pick the book back up. Because it has the power to do it. If she love fantasy then these chronicles are the best of this time.

and welcome and be true!

I didn't like LFB and refused to finish it in 7th grade.

Within two years, I'd swallowed all six books whole.

In the future, when you are "promoting" the books to someone like that, TELL THEM beforehand that one of the first things the main character does is rape a woman. A good friend of mine would often say that, and intentionally add that that was the sort of thing that offends people who refuse to look deeper and see if there are deep insights in the books. (though he wasn't thinking of me as being "one of those sorts of people")

Worked for me!

For your sister, maybe tell her that "Actually, it turns out that Covenant is painfully aware that he's done something horrible, and it even follows him into his waking life - he probably has an even harder time forgiving himself than you do." (Then maybe she'll feel sorry for him!) And/or focus on how incredible Lena and Atiaran were to sacrifice for the sake of Covenant and the sake of The Land. Really, don't try "It had to happen for a reason."

Or just wait. If she's strongly empathized with Lena, she will HAVE TO find out what happens to the Land eventually.

And like I've said on another thread, these books are not for all people at any stage in their lives... I really think they might've had a negative effect if on me if I'd read them too soon, and didn't have wise people around me to talk with and "process" things.

I'm in the minority in that I didn't hate TC when I read the rape part. I understood where he was coming from, that he "knew" it was a dream world.

So, maybe if you explained that aspect of TC's perspective she would understand better.

By the way, welcome to the Watch!

Mind you, I never hated TC for the rape. I hated him for his passivity and unbelief:) But even that passed quickly, in TIW.

amanibhavam wrote:Mind you, I never hated TC for the rape. I hated him for his passivity and unbelief:) But even that passed quickly, in TIW.

I don't recall hating TC. More like being disappointed in him. So close to doing what he should be doing.

Lord Douchebag wrote: But anyway, I digress. Any advice on anything I can say to make her change her mind? I really hate to give up, because the books are so moving and poignant, but I really don't see getting her to read anymore of them--TC's rape of Lena just murdered any chance of it.

First post btw

Maybe she would prefer the GAP books! BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

Balon wrote:I'm in the minority in that I didn't hate TC when I read the rape part. I understood where he was coming from, that he "knew" it was a dream world.

So, maybe if you explained that aspect of TC's perspective she would understand better.

By the way, welcome to the Watch!

Oh believe me, I tried everything. Told her that he doesn't accept the Land is real, she was just a figment of his imagination, etc. I also explained how hard it is on him later (not in detail), and how important it is to the entire plot--but nothing sways her, he's a dirt rapist and that's all there is to it IHO.
She also really hates him because of how he treats Atiaran. Specifically when Triock reveals to her what happened, and Covenant doesn't even acknowledge her pain, just demands that she help him clean his wounded fingers (alive with pain). And she just WON'T let it go, in Manhome she took umbridge at how Covenant looked at Cord Gay. "Gonna rape himself another one?" she asked. And it's funny, everytime I ask her where she is in the book or what's going on, the first thing she says is, "I hate that book."
Well thanks for all the ideas, but it's pretty much a lost cause at this point. MAYBE I can convince her to come back to them later, but it's going to be awhile. Oh and she's 25, so it's not like she's too young to understand the book or anything; I guess she just likes her books to be more 'low brow' (I mentioned she liked S. King )

And she doesn't care about the Land, which is pretty much the nail in the coffin. The first time I read it I really hated TC, but I LOVED the Land, right from the beginning with Trell and his stone lore (i'm not even gonna try to spell rhademeral right), the Earth Sight, the Lords, everything. But I ask her about them and she just shrugs; honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think something's gotta be wrong with my sister...how can she not appreciate such beauty? The only thing she's told me she actually liked in the book were the Bloodguard.

Oh and one last thing, she hates Foamfollower too--because he made friends with TC.

My sister is just a bitch

That scene in Manhome was the moment when Covenant quite explicitly acknowledged the extreme guilt he felt at his actions--although he suppressed it again by making his deal with the Ranyhyn. If what you described was her only response to that scene, then there's no hope for her ever getting into the books, I think.

Yep, when I asked her about what TC did for her by sending the Ranyhyn to her every year (reminding her that she had always dreamed of seeing one) she said, "Doesn't make up for raping her."

Touche sister, touche.

Lord Douchebag wrote:Yep, when I asked her about what TC did for her by sending the Ranyhyn to her every year (reminding her that she had always dreamed of seeing one) she said, "Doesn't make up for raping her."

Touche sister, touche.

Hire some old bum to put on an ochre robe and shout something at her.

Then, when she freaks out, just say, "You should have read the books, I guess."

Maybe I'll just start shouting the Seven Words at her everyday when I get home from work--is it possible she's mokshaRaver?

Melenkurion Abatha! Duroc Minas Mill! Harad Khabaal! Do you rave sister!? Do you rave!?

Lord Douchebag wrote:Maybe I'll just start shouting the Seven Words at her everyday when I get home from work--is it possible she's mokshaRaver?

Melenkurion Abatha! Duroc Minas Mill! Harad Khabaal! Do you rave sister!? Do you rave!?

I wish I could get my sister to read LFB, I just love discussing the book with people. Keep trying, its a worthy goal.

just a thought, if she thinks 'Lord Douchebag' is a real character in the book, maybe this is holding her back?