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Sunbane, Elohim, and the Earthpower
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:26 am
by Lord Mhoram
Okay, so the Sunbane was a corruption of the Earthpower. Theoretically, the Elohim were Earthpower incarnate. Were they coprruped as well? And if not, that leads to my question: Where/what is the source of Earthpower?
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:02 am
by Romeo
If there is a single source - if it's not just from the earth itself - I would have to say that it comes from the Worm of the Worlds End. Which seems to be connected to the bottom root of the One Tree.
The Elohim were corrupted in some way - remember that there was Chant and many like him who were described as having a shadow cast on them. Maybe that was a result of the corruption of earthpower, or maybe it was a more direct manipulation of them by Foul.
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:07 am
by danlo
Romeo said xactly what I was going 2 say..dang it!
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 8:12 am
by Lord Mhoram
Ah, thank you Romeo. I had forgotten about Chant. However, I do not thhink it was a direct manipulation on Foul's part. More likely related to the Sunbane?
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 3:06 pm
by Furls Fire
It was Foul who corrupted the Earthpower by using it to restore himself after his second round with Covenant. He burrowed himself into the Earthpower itself, thus corrupting it and eventually causing the sunbane....
So, if you take that a step farther, then he could very well be the reason for the shadow on the Elohim.
The wound was spreading from the Land.
Furls Fire
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 4:07 pm
by caamora
Yes, the Sunbane was supposed to spread all over the earth.
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 5:15 pm
by variol son
& the fact that it hadnt reached all over the world yet would b the reason y not all elohim had felt the touch of the shadow.
sum sui generis
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 3:17 am
by Furls Fire
And maybe that explains why only the "younger" of the Elohim seemed to be shadowed.
I still find the Elohim confusing, even after reading the Chronicles as many times as I have. I realize that they silenced Covenant so he would not destroy the Arch of Time..etc...but, they knew the One Tree was not accessible. Why send the Sun-Sage there? Findail was Appointed to try and get the Ring..and if he failed, he was "doomed" to merge with Vain to become the Staff of Law. Going to the One Tree seems pointless to me. I could be missing something.
Peace
Furls Fire
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:12 am
by Lord Mhoram
Of course! The fact that Foul corrupted the Earthpower himself first makes sense of why the younger Elohim were shadowed...
Do we know of other shadowed Elohim besides that one who ran off with a human woman?
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:15 am
by Furls Fire
The only other Appointed that I can recall was the one that became the Colosus of the Fall. I do not think she was "shadowed" though.
Peace
Furls Fire
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:48 am
by Ryzel
There were these stories that Findail told. About someone called "Kastenessen" who might have been one of, or indeed the first, appointed.
Additionally I think it is said somewhere that it was the Elohim which taught the forest to create forestals. No mention of any appointed there, but I think there must have been one. Maybe one of those who "survived"?
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:11 am
by Fist and Faith
From TOT:
In the nigh-unremembered past of the place which you deem the Land, the life was not the life or men and women, but of trees. One wide forest of sentience and passion filled all the region - one mind and heart alive in every leaf and bough of every tree among the many myriad throngs and glory of the woods. And that life the Elohim loved.
"But a hate rose against the forest, seeking its destruction. And this was dire, for a tree may know love and feel pain and cry out, but has few means of defense. The knowledge was lacking. Therefore we met, and from among us Appointed one to give her life to that forest. This she did by merging among the trees until they gained the knowledge they required.
"Their knowledge they employed to bind her in stone, exercising her name and being to form an interdict against that hate. Thus was she lost to herself and to her people - but the interdict remained while the will of the forest remained to hold it."
"The Colossus," Covenant breathed. "The Colossus of the Fall."
"Yes," Findail said.
"And when people started coming to the Land, started cutting down the trees as if they were just so much timber and difficulty, the forest used what it'd learned to create the Forestals in self-defense."
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:26 pm
by variol son
findail also mentions that many have felt the shadow as chant has & have fallen under it, & that even infelice herself has felt its touch.
& im not sure that kastenessen was the first appointed. i always assumed that findail told that story coz they were friends, & coz kastenessen cursed him with death.
sum sui generis
Re: Sunbane, Elohim, and the Earthpower
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:23 am
by Han-shan
Romeo wrote:Lord Mhoram wrote:Where/what is the source of Earthpower?
If there is a single source - if it's not just from the earth itself - I would have to say that it comes from the Worm of the Worlds End. Which seems to be connected to the bottom root of the One Tree.
With the Staff of Law, I've been exploring this very issue. The only answer I can come up with at this point is simply that Earthpower is a natural part of the Earth's existence. Like gravity, it is a natural consequence, and it could not be otherwise.
This does not contradict Romeo's theory at all. It is possible that the Worm's innate power, or the power of the stars that created the Earth from within the sleeping Worm, are the true source of Earthpower. But since that power, Worm or stars, is so absolutely tied up with the creation of the Earth, it is impossible (so far) to say where one ends and the other begins. Maybe one or the other
is the Earthpower, or maybe it only created things in such a way that Earthpower is inevitable.
Ah well, in the end, all are "forms and faces of the one Power of life."
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:17 am
by Furls Fire
Where does this leave the Creator? Did the Creator create the Worm? Or did he see the Worm asleep and form the Earth around it?
We know that in The One Tree, Covenant almost "woke up" the Worm and hence, the Ilse sank into the sea because the Worm was "stirring" in it's sleep. Yet, Findail says that the Tree was not destroyed. The Elohim are the Earthpower incarnate, but where did they come from? From the Worm or from the Creator. Or are they part of the "stars".
The Creator set the Arch of Time, using wild magic and then he created the Earth. Where does the Worm fit in there?
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:00 pm
by Han-shan
Uh...
Sorry, but the Staff's abilities don't extend as far as seeing back to the creation of the cosmos, the Worm, or the Earth.
On my own, I meditate, and feel sources of power. With the Staff's help, my meditation allows me to join with the power to a greater extent, revealing more of its nature.
As for the
Elohim, well, their guess is probably better than mine. But the Earthpower itself has demonstrated sentience/consciousness/awareness on many levels, even to the point of speaking with Berek. It seems to have plans, desires, intentions of its own. Whether it chose to manifest itself in the extremely aware and powerful
Elohim merely because it wants the experience of such awareness, or because it expects them to protect it in some way, or any number of other scenarios, is nothing I could even guess at.
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:25 pm
by Fist and Faith
Furls Fire, I just bumped a thread about the 2 creation stories.
Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:22 pm
by Furls Fire
Thanks Fist, just read them all...all of them awesome!! Love this site.
Furls Fire