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Possible goof
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:28 pm
by CT
I submitted this to the GI, but SRD seems to be on vaca (the nerve! get back to work!
).
When the Haruchai are describing to Linden Covenant's various 1st chron summonses, they mention all 4, and say only 1 was w/o the SoL - Triock and Foamfollower's summons. Unless I'm missing something, Mhoram's aborted summons also wasn't with the SoL.
Anyone else notice this?
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:38 pm
by Starkin
Hmmm, good point that.
I guess I missed all of these "mistakes" everybody keeps mentioning in that first read. Too caught up in FR's awesomeness, I suppose. Hopefully SRD can set some of them straightened out in the GI.
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:42 pm
by dlbpharmd
Excellent point, I didn't notice that either.
Re: Possible goof
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:27 pm
by iQuestor
CT wrote:I submitted this to the GI, but SRD seems to be on vaca (the nerve! get back to work!
).
When the Haruchai are describing to Linden Covenant's various 1st chron summonses, they mention all 4, and say only 1 was w/o the SoL - Triock and Foamfollower's summons. Unless I'm missing something, Mhoram's aborted summons also wasn't with the SoL.
Anyone else notice this?
Mhorams summoning was technically a half-summons, he didnt bring TC all the way in, so that would be 4.5 with the SoL. Now, its well known Haruchai only work with integers, and never real numbers, so he implicitly rounded off the half summons. I think thats in the index somewheres
SoL - Ha! that used to mean $H*T Out of Luck when I was in the service. as in "You are SOL , dude" so I laugh when I see that abbreviation.
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:27 pm
by Romeo
I was looking for this in the text - what chapter is it in?
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:57 pm
by CT
Romeo wrote:I was looking for this in the text - what chapter is it in?
I don't have my book with me right now, but I believe it was after Linden et. al. left Revelstone for Andelain. I'll try to look it up tonight. At some point Linden asks to know more about Covenant's summonses that happened before her experience with him. I think it's Stave that's answering her, and he says TC was summoned 4 times in all, and that one summons - by Triock and Foamfollower - was w/o the SoL b/c their need was so great. I think she was searching for ways to believe she would be able to summon him from the AoT.
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:55 pm
by alanm
There appear to be goofs in the 'What Has Gone Before' section too. I read this last night and thought, there are many incorrect statements.
regards
Alan
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:29 pm
by Romeo
The only reference I could find is in Part 2, Chapter 10. Stave is explaining why people go back when their summoner dies - or why in some cases they remain in the Land. He says, "So it transpired three times for the ur-Lord, the Unbeliever." And he didn't mention the Staff in the previous text. Could this have been misinterpreted as all summons with the Staff?
Ah. I found it. It's when they are in the Hall of Gifts:
After a few steps, she asked, still indirectly, “How many times was Covenant summoned to the Land? I mean, before he and I came here together?”
“Four of which the Bloodguard had knowledge,” answered Stave.
“Who summoned him?”
Her companion had apparently accepted her fragmented state. He replied without hesitation, “The first summoning was performed by the Cavewight Drool Rockworm at Corruption’s bidding. The second, by High Lord Elena. The third, by High Lord Mhoram. In each such call, the necessary power was drawn from the Staff of Law. But the fourth was accomplished by the Giant Saltheart Foamfollower and the Stonedownor Triock, enabled only by their own desperation, and by a rod of lomillialor, of High Wood, gifted to Triock by High Lord Mhoram.”
Yes - it was a minor mistake. But I'm surprised we didn't catch it sooner - it's not as hidden as the Caer Caveral one (which I looked right at and didn't see).
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:13 pm
by Borillar
I think I spotted another error. There's some point during FR where someone (I can't remember who) says that anyone lower than Lord Foul in the power hierarchy (i.e., a Raver) could not stand the test of truth given by orcrest or lomillialor (I'd love it if someone could find this passage). But this isn't true: in PTP, the Raver that occupies Yeurquin's body is able to grip the lomillialor without being burned alive.
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:09 pm
by High Lord Tolkien
But that Raver was jacked up on Ill-Earth "juice" though.
And Elena was using the SoL to power them up too, maybe not the Ravers directly, but the one attacking Revelstone certainly felt the SoL's support go away when TC destroyed it.
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:44 pm
by Borillar
That Raver did not have a piece of the Illearth Stone. It's true that the Staff of Law was "at their backs", but I don't see how the SOL could enhance a Raver's ability to resist the test of truth. It seems like the reverse would be true.
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:58 pm
by High Lord Tolkien
(Man, I wish I had my books with me at work because my memory is so poor)
I though that Raver, though he didn't have a fragment true, still had a green glow or ooze or something green like he was being funneled IE power.
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:47 pm
by dlbpharmd
Romeo wrote:The only reference I could find is in Part 2, Chapter 10. Stave is explaining why people go back when their summoner dies - or why in some cases they remain in the Land. He says, "So it transpired three times for the ur-Lord, the Unbeliever." And he didn't mention the Staff in the previous text. Could this have been misinterpreted as all summons with the Staff?
Ah. I found it. It's when they are in the Hall of Gifts:
After a few steps, she asked, still indirectly, “How many times was Covenant summoned to the Land? I mean, before he and I came here together?”
“Four of which the Bloodguard had knowledge,” answered Stave.
“Who summoned him?”
Her companion had apparently accepted her fragmented state. He replied without hesitation, “The first summoning was performed by the Cavewight Drool Rockworm at Corruption’s bidding. The second, by High Lord Elena. The third, by High Lord Mhoram. In each such call, the necessary power was drawn from the Staff of Law. But the fourth was accomplished by the Giant Saltheart Foamfollower and the Stonedownor Triock, enabled only by their own desperation, and by a rod of lomillialor, of High Wood, gifted to Triock by High Lord Mhoram.”
Yes - it was a minor mistake. But I'm surprised we didn't catch it sooner - it's not as hidden as the Caer Caveral one (which I looked right at and didn't see).
This bears repeating - Romeo, you have a tough and thankless job.
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:51 am
by Romeo
I keep saying - the genius is his, and the goofs are mine.
Thankless?! Surely not! Sea? Jenn? Can you see any way that this word could possibly apply? (even when we're beating ourselves up for missing stupid little things like this?)
Regarding the Test of Truth - I believe there's more involved than just grabbing and holding the orcrest or lomilialor. I think the test must be "administered" in some way. I do remember that Jehannum (sp?) fled Flaming Woodhelven <grin> before they could give him the test (with the Lominator 2000).
They said at the time that the test works as long as the tested does not exceed the testor. Foul would fall into this category - the Ravers might be tough, but still wouldn't "exceed" a heer.
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:20 am
by StarRider
You could also write it off to the Haruchai's interpretation of a summoning. Perhaps they only count actual successes rather than attempts.
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:09 pm
by Seppi2112
They didn't know about Mhoram's summoning perhaps... all the bloodguard left Revelstone before it occurred.
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:37 pm
by Romeo
But they at least suspected that it could not have been done with the Staff of Law, since that was lost with Elena (when they were still around).
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:45 pm
by Aleksandr
One can rescure this apparent goof by assuming that while Mhoram did not have the Staff of Law he still tapped into its power to perform the 3rd summoning. There is a hint in the 2nd Chronicles during the Soothtell that once the Staff was destroyed the summoning rite had to change radically. In the 1st Chronicles someone just reaches out and grabs TC and brings him to the Land. In the 2nd (and now also in the 3rd) there's pain and bloodshed involved in the real world during the summoning.
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:01 pm
by alanm
ok, well maybe another goof.
have got to approx page 170 in FR.
when Linden goes to see TC and J in revelstone she notices that they have a fire set and thinks that they are human enough to feel the cold. Beg pardon but TC is DEAD, he will not feel the cold
or another thought, is this really TC. have got to page 170 I suspect not
anyway IMHO, this is an inept continuation of the TC series and maybe I have just lined SRD's pockets with some hard earned cash.
regards
Alan
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:21 pm
by Aleksandr
Re: They didn't know about Mhoram's summoning perhaps... all the bloodguard left Revelstone before it occurred.
TC told Bannor and Fomfollower about it after the crisis at the Colossus, before they separated. Bannor criticized him for taking the time to rescue the girl in his own world, while Foamfollower approved of his action. Bannor must have presumably survived to return to the Haruchai and share his stories there since the Haruchai are aware of the events at the Colossus.