Kevin's Watch

I got one of my questions in the gradual interview on Donaldson's site, and asked about if it's every gonna be told from Covenant's point of view. Although he didn't directly answer, he did imply that basically it's going to continue to be from Linden's POV. Well, you know, as long as covenant is back, I don't mind so much.

Jeroth wrote:I got one of my questions in the gradual interview on Donaldson's site, and asked about if it's every gonna be told from Covenant's point of view. Although he didn't directly answer, he did imply that basically it's going to continue to be from Linden's POV. Well, you know, as long as covenant is back, I don't mind so much.

He pointed out the reason for this. You can't have it from Covenant's point of view. He knows too much.

For those wondering, here is the question and answer from the GI:

Anonymous: I love your Thomas Covenant books, but why is Linden now the main star of the books? Aren't these the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant? I love Covenant far more than Linden. Don't get me wrong, she's an interesting character, but Covenant is the best thing in the series. Is he coming back? Is he going to once again be the focal point of the chronicles soon?

There are some general guidelines about point of view. (Exceptions exist, of course, but they're rare.) 1) Stories should be told from the POV of the person who has the most at stake. 2) Stories should be told from the POV of the person who serves as the best surrogate for the reader, either because the character needs to know the same things the reader needs to know, or because the character can tell the reader the things the reader needs to know. 3) Stories should be told from the POV of someone who *survives* the story. By all three standards, Linden's role as a POV character is, has been, and will continue to be essential. If that doesn't work for you, you probably wish I were writing a different story. But that isn't one of my choices--and *this* story can only be told the way I'm telling it.

Nevertheless I promise you--as I've been promising everyone since I started on "The Runes of the Earth"--that this story isn't called "The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" gratuitously. The title isn't a trick, or a marketing ploy: it has substance. Give me time, and I'll prove it to you.

Seareach wrote:For those wondering, here is the question and answer from the GI:

Anonymous: I love your Thomas Covenant books, but why is Linden now the main star of the books? Aren't these the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant? I love Covenant far more than Linden. Don't get me wrong, she's an interesting character, but Covenant is the best thing in the series. Is he coming back? Is he going to once again be the focal point of the chronicles soon?

There are some general guidelines about point of view. (Exceptions exist, of course, but they're rare.) 1) Stories should be told from the POV of the person who has the most at stake. 2) Stories should be told from the POV of the person who serves as the best surrogate for the reader, either because the character needs to know the same things the reader needs to know, or because the character can tell the reader the things the reader needs to know. 3) Stories should be told from the POV of someone who *survives* the story. By all three standards, Linden's role as a POV character is, has been, and will continue to be essential. If that doesn't work for you, you probably wish I were writing a different story. But that isn't one of my choices--and *this* story can only be told the way I'm telling it.

Nevertheless I promise you--as I've been promising everyone since I started on "The Runes of the Earth"--that this story isn't called "The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" gratuitously. The title isn't a trick, or a marketing ploy: it has substance. Give me time, and I'll prove it to you.

Sounds to me like it doesn't preclude other POVs, though... he says "Linden's role as A POV character", not "as THE POV character"...

I confess, I prefer Linden. I can empathize with her a lot easier than I did Covenant.

There is a chance that the all-new Covenant doesn't know anything of being dead, (or of being "Timewarden"!). In fact his initial question may simply spring from this ignorance, and his stated desire not to be resurrected. And so I hold out hope for a Covenant POV. And even if we don't get one, he's going to impact the story in a very big way.

Odd that SRD mentions Linden in relation to someone who *survives* the story. My guess is that's just in relation to her role as POV at the beginning.

This is a story that expands ever bigger.
I expect and hope for other points of view in books 3 and 4 including Roger, Joan, and eventually Jeremiah, and, especially as this is the final chronicles, from at least one Land-based person as well.

Mhoram was a damn good POV.

Though I miss Covenant's PoV a lot, I don't mind the story being told through Linden. She's different--she asks more questions and doubts herself a lot more than Covenant--but she's similar to him in enough ways that the story isn't too far removed from the first and second chrons.

Of course, it's true that SRD's answer there doesn't answer whether Covenant's PoV will return, only the question "why is Linden now the main star of the books?"

Yes, Donaldson likes to give answers that, when you look at them closely, aren't the answer.

3) Stories should be told from the POV of someone who *survives* the story.

THAT's intriguing ...

The only thing I don't like about Linden being the POV character is that the entire drive of the Last Chronicles is to rescue her son. I like her as a character. But if someone else were the main character, we wouldn't be tied to this mother-child motivation.

Wayfriend wrote:Yes, Donaldson likes to give answers that, when you look at them closely, aren't the answer.

3) Stories should be told from the POV of someone who *survives* the story.

THAT's intriguing ...

Very intriguing!
He could just be talking about the Epilogue though.
That's where we get all the answers.
If it's TC, who I would assume is going to know everything at the end, there's really no point in him asking the questions.

Very intriguing indeed!

This series needs an epilogue back in "The Real World", and it begs the question as to who will the actors be, and who will be the POV be then?!

I wonder whether magical powers "breaking" into the real world, and Foul becoming an actual threat to the real world will be part of this story.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:

Wayfriend wrote:Yes, Donaldson likes to give answers that, when you look at them closely, aren't the answer.

3) Stories should be told from the POV of someone who *survives* the story.

THAT's intriguing ...

Very intriguing!
He could just be talking about the Epilogue though.
That's where we get all the answers.
If it's TC, who I would assume is going to know everything at the end, there's really no point in him asking the questions.

I just realized it must mean that Covenant doesn't survive the series. He dies when the Arch is destroyed, real dead not Land Dead dead. While Linden must survive.

Donaldson is just as confusing with his responses to question as his books are in and of themselves.

Wayfriend wrote: I just realized it must mean that Covenant doesn't survive the series. He dies when the Arch is destroyed, real dead not Land Dead dead. While Linden must survive.

Well, Covenant didn't survive the second series either....

LowlyPeasantKevin wrote:

Wayfriend wrote: I just realized it must mean that Covenant doesn't survive the series. He dies when the Arch is destroyed, real dead not Land Dead dead. While Linden must survive.

Well, Covenant didn't survive the second series either....

Ah. It was late at night and I didn't grasp your point the first time around. Now I see what you're getting at.

Well, this doesn't surprise me. I didn't really expect to see anything from Covenant's point of view, but I had hoped.

But when I think about it, this doesn't bother me as much as I had thought it would. While I'd rather be in TC's head, I have to admit that there's one thing I like about being in Linden's: her perceptions of him are always interesting to me. When you see everything from his point of view, he's always so self-deprecating ("Oh god, it's all my fault, everything's my fault! blah blah blah") that it's easier to forget exactly how impressive he can be at times. Whereas Linden is always ready to remind the reader.

From The Wounded Land:

...his cheeks were lined with difficulties; his eyes were like embers, capable of fire.

That's a cool description -- one that we probably wouldn't get if the story was being told from Covenant's POV.

To her dismay, his controlled vehemence made her falter. For the second time in the course of the sunset, she was held by eyes that were too potent for her.

With Linden's POV, we get descriptions of TC like, "a prophet of hope and ruin" (don't have the book with me, can't remember the full quote). So for me, the fact that I have to see everything from her perspective for the next 2 books will not be without certain advantages.

stormrider wrote:So for me, the fact that I have to see everything from her perspective for the next 2 books will not be without certain advantages.

Yes. Give into your love of Linden, and together we shall rule the Land as Roommates!

Evil roommates, though.

Fist and Faith wrote:*sigh*

The more I read and re-read,and look at GI answers from SRD,the more
it seems to me that this series has no business being called the 'The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant'

The way I see it all the characters are dead in the real world.. And it may be that Covenant will have to die (in the land) to help preserve the weakened Arch of Time..

Jeremiah is a tricky one.. He's been under Foul's power so long, and even if it is possible for the Croyel to be removed.. Will he recover?? Will he be able to build a trap for the Elohim? the Worm of the World's End? For Foul? Could he make a new Arch of Time?

I expect Roger to be killed. And frankly, I can't wait. But I want more of an understanding of him first - how he came to know so much of the Land's history..

Linden seems a likely candidate for becoming a new Forestal - and Salva Gildenbourne was created without the lore and knowledge of Forests..

And Joan also will die... and weather her death demands the return of Linden, Roger and Jeremiah to their world we shall see..

BUT I recently asked Donaldson if there is any room for the opportunity for more Land-based POVs.. As the Gilden-Fire story was removed from the Illearth war because the central theme of those Chronichles was Unbelief and that passage would have influenced the land's belief in the land.. And that crisis has passed, surely, so now POVs from the Giants, Ramen, haruchai, Stonedownors etc wouldn't challenge our belief in the land, it should be safe to include them, yes???

I hope so anyway.. I don't mind Linden being the central character though. She has something TC doesn't.. Boobies.