Kevin's Watch

Has anyone noticed their are no gays in the land? not a hint of homoerotisism or deviation the masters are a bit gayin that they dont appear to have any women with them but its all repressed and sublimanated or repressed. lindsans a bit gay I think he is the only gay in theland

Spoiler

There's a thread in the 1st and 2nd Chronicle forum about this. Check it out!

What about Foamfollower? He was telling gay stories as the quest marched from Manhome to Mount Thunder.

Winhome Gay is also insulted by your post rlm!

High Lord Tolkien wrote:Winhome Gay is also insulted by your post rlm!

Is that why she became Manethrall Rue?

And what do we really know about the relations between the ravers and their "master", Foul? The raver possessing Linden in WGW feeds on Fouls smell (attar) "like an addict". Hm...

Can't we just pretend that it's there somewhere if we *really* want, without having to read about it? I'm fine with Dumbledore being gay, I dont think I woulda been ok hearing about what he and Grindlewald did at night.

I guess it depends on what's needed for the story. I'd have to say that there is definitely homosexuality in the Land. But SRD only writes what is needed to tell the story. So if that aspect isn't important for what he's trying to get across, it's not going to make it onto paper. How many times have any of the characters gone to the bathroom? I can only remember one time being specifically mentioned, and I think it was in Runes (and that might have been in a draft - it may not have made it to the published version). But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

That's how I look at the Dumbledore thing. It may have been important to Rowling to think of him and Grindewald in a homosexual relationship so she could write things the way she needed them to be - emotional responses, etc. - but the actual fact of their relationship just wasn't important enough that she had to put it onto paper. There are probably a billion such things in every story we read. Like (and I'm going to get beat up for this <grin>), what if the Haruchai are so tough and demanding because they're compensating for ... um ... well, let's say that they don't have any bright flashy sports cars in the Land. (disclaimer! I'm speaking to the stereotype, not buying into it - I wouldn't mind having a bright flashy sports car myself *he says, puffing out his chest to suggest he doesn't have anything to "compensate" for* <grin>) If this is the mental picture that SRD uses when he's writing the story - even if it isn't true (and it's not), or isn't important enough for the details to make it onto paper - what matters is the impact of what does make it into the book and the picture/feelings/etc. that it generates for the reader.

IMHO

Harry Potter is no Thomas Covenant.

SRD is not an author who'd shy away from unusual themes or characters - if he'd intended or needed any of his characters to be homosexual he would've done so.

And the Land is no direct representation of reality: it does not _have_ to contain gay characters whatever their incidency IRL.

I think the Oath of Peace implied a Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy.

... ask not, when gaydar is enough.

I also think, what with health-sense, everyone in the Land has real good gaydar.

This is why Osondrea never liked Covenant. He was closed to her, but he was a little too fond of Saltheart for her tastes. She was suspicious.

The Elohim are either sex depending on their preference at the time.
So....what's that?
Omni-sexual?

High Lord Tolkien wrote:The Elohim are either sex depending on their preference at the time.
So....what's that?
Omni-sexual?

Weird.. flity.. crazed..

One minute you look like a wasted human then boom, your part of the mainmast of a drommond with a ur vile construct looking at you and grinning.

I have read the posts in this thread and have found them largely humorous, but I would like to ask the questions:

Do we, as readers, need for there to be gay people in the Land? What if there are absolutely none?

I personally find it nice that it hansn't just been worked in some where to satisfy some kind of urge for social engineering. If you watch enough TV you can see that Hollywood has taken great pains for us to be aware of homosexuality. Do we need it here?

On the lighter side, if anyone in the Land is gay it must be the Harrow. He seems to have a sense of fashion and he is wearing beads.

Nope. If the story doesn't need gay people in order to be told, then there doesn't need to be any in the Land.

TV, since it so thoroughly pervades everything about our culture, works under a different set of assumptions than a book does. TV (in its entirety) can, quite literally, make gays acceptible or make gays hated and feared, depending on what it does. SRD doesn't really enjoy that kind of power.

"I've met Thomas Covenant, Mr. Potter, and you are NOT Thomas Covenant."

(or something close to that quote, right?)

No GAYS in the land? Have you SEEN Fantasy Bedtime Hour? I highly recommend taking a gander at this:

www.fantasybedtimehour.com

These episodes in particular deal with gay issues in the Land:

fantasybedtimehour.com/episodes/EP28.php

fantasybedtimehour.com/episodes/EP9.php

fantasybedtimehour.com/episodes/EP11.php

fantasybedtimehour.com/episodes/EP14.php

fantasybedtimehour.com/episodes/EP25.php

The land is teeming with gayness.

I mean come on now, SRD even named one of his people SorANAL. Hello!

Cameraman Jenn wrote:No GAYS in the land? Have you SEEN Fantasy Bedtime Hour? I highly recommend taking a gander at this:

www.fantasybedtimehour.com

These episodes in particular deal with gay issues in the Land:

fantasybedtimehour.com/episodes/EP28.php

fantasybedtimehour.com/episodes/EP9.php

fantasybedtimehour.com/episodes/EP11.php

fantasybedtimehour.com/episodes/EP14.php

fantasybedtimehour.com/episodes/EP25.php

The land is teeming with gayness.

I mean come on now, SRD even named one of his people SorANAL. Hello!

But SorANAL sure didn't seem to agree with that pronunciation of his name, he kept yelling SORA-nal back at people. Next you'll be saying there's Mormons in the Land.

On the lighter side, if anyone in the Land is gay it must be the Harrow. He seems to have a sense of fashion and he is wearing beads.

haha I had the same thought about the Harrow ...
SRD doesnt often go out of his way to mention the sexuality of his characters in any case; Lena, Elena, TC, Linden, Pitchwife, the First, Atiaran, Triock, Trell, Trevor, Loerya (sp ?) Bannor, Stave, Sunder and Hollian were all hetero; the High Lords must've been to have reproduced too ..
apart from that you can pretty much cast your own thoughts as to who may or may not be a gay Land-dweller - me, I always thought that Hamako was a bit camp; also Mhoram, never married, surely his devotion to lore and law couldnt have totally sustained him over his long years ?? Foamfollower; those long lonely nights as a Legate would have surely allowed him to exercise an 'any port in a storm' policy .. the Kasreyn was clearly bi in my mind, quite a bent character that one ..