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WHEN exactly does Linden decide that shes not sufficent?
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:51 pm
by Atrium
...and how rational is her reasoning?
Is it after the climax in Earthroot?
As i see it Linden has been capable of handling every crisis thats been thrown in her face. She found the staff. She escaped the Demondim, and later managed to close their caesure. She handled the Masters, sort of. She found out the truth about Roger and Jeremiah. She returned to her own time. She even got away from the Harrows clutches.
Her big shortcoming so far has been not being able to beat the skurj. Because Kevins Dirt dampens her connection to earthpower. The logic action to take i that light would then be to try to fight the Dirt. Of course that wouldnt bring back Covenant, which im greatly for. But i find her reasoning a bit vague here.
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:32 pm
by High Lord Tolkien
It's actually pretty clear (to me anyway).
She doesn't know where Jemimah is.
That's her main focus.
The only one who has never failed her is TC.
In her eyes TC was the one who beat all the odds and won the last time.
He's her only hope of getting Jerry back.(unless she wants to give up her Ring and Staff to that Insequent who's name I can't remember)
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:20 pm
by Relayer
I thought she decided she wasn't sufficient at about age 9...

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:07 pm
by lurch
Relayer wrote:I thought she decided she wasn't sufficient at about age 9...

Yea,,really...as far as the Last Chrons go..her realizing her insufficient,,begins with giving Joan the Ring..afterall, it was done out of desperation,,nothing else had worked. At the same time, her " gifts" to Jeremiah..where beyond her understanding in consequence. He did things with them,, but she remained clueless as to what motivated him, why he did what he did with them, or simply, what kind of human being is he inside..
Thus begins her battle with despair.
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:56 pm
by iQuestor
I think someone told her about THOOLAH and it made her insecure. I think it was DOnaldson himself that told her.
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:48 pm
by Atrium
Well, to me its not all that clear. I mean, shes done a pretty good job so far in the last chronicles. Not to mention that she defeated the sunbane last time she was in the land. Whats her problem? Bad autoesteem?
OK, she might want to resurrect Covenant because she loves him. But the story does a poor job of explaining how she reasons when she decide that her own resources arent enough.
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:08 pm
by emotional leper
I think ten years of failing to break through Jeremiah's silence would be enough to make her doubt herself. She who healed an entire world unable to get so much as a noise out of her son. That has to hurt.
Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:21 pm
by Atrium
But in the land she has magic. In the real world shes left with her medical skills. And theres no cure for autism. If thats what J is suffering from.
Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:53 pm
by emotional leper
Atrium wrote:But in the land she has magic. In the real world shes left with her medical skills. And theres no cure for autism. If thats what J is suffering from.
I don't think Jeremiah is suffering from Autism. I just think that's what it looks like from the outside. I think what Jeremiah is suffering from is for the last ten years, since he shoved his hand into that fire, he's not been in the real world at all. He's been stuck in the land. There is no mind in his body.
Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:39 pm
by Relayer
I agree... but then what are all the constructs he makes? Attempts by his Land-based mind to get back? Or attempts to get to the Land?
It seems like he might have been stuck in between. Even though he's controlled by the croyel, I think he's essentially telling the truth when he says he was able to go to the Land after he built the racetrack. Don't remember the whole passage...
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:36 am
by burgs
Linden is far more capable than she realizes.
She believes that because she gave Joan her ring, that she herself was defeated. What person with a heart wouldn't have done the same?
She sees her "work" with Jeremiah as a failure. Of course she does - what mother wouldn't?
WE know that she's capable. This is a woman without whom TC would not have made it to Foul in the Second Chrons to sacrifice himself. This is a woman, without whom, the Sunbane would not have been quenched.
She is capable beyond measure.
It's her humanity that causes her to feel otherwise.
She doesn't realize that TC defeated Foul with LOADS of help both times. Again - she doesn't credit herself with the "assist" in the 2nd Chrons. Although she's a doctor, has passed tests (mentally and physically) that would leave most of us in the dust, she still feels incapable.
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:38 pm
by wayfriend
I think the answer is pretty simple. Linden felt insufficient the moment she realized that Lord Foul kidnapped her son.
She left Jeremiah in her house to go to the hospital, realizing too late that Roger was after Jeremiah all along. She realized her mistake, too late, and failed to keep Jeremiah from being summoned to the Land and landing in Lord Foul's mitts.
Since then, it's been a never ending task of making up lost ground. She's unable to find and rescue Jeremiah. The Land is in some serious trouble, most of which she does not understand, and the rest she can do little about. Since she cares what happens to the Land (yes), and has the weight of responsibility hanging from her neck, in the shape of a ring, she is confronted with her inadequacy at every turn.
Meanwhile, everyone she meets is telling her she's a danger, a disaster, or a desecration.
And then there's the ring, which she feels she cannot use as well as she needs to.
How can you expect her to NOT feel insufficient? It's just about the only response that's sane and realistic.
"Making up lost ground" pretty much encompasses everything to say about her actions since then. Gaining personal power. Gaining Covenant. All of these are efforts to become adequate to her challenges. The ultimate challenges being to free Jeremiah and save the Land.