Kevin's Watch

Bond 22 is the working title of the next Bond flick slated for release Nov 7th. I read that the new Bond girl will challenge Bond and make him deal with Vesper's betrayal. So, it'll be a continuation.

KiGirl wrote:Bond 22 is the working title of the next Bond flick slated for release Nov 7th. I read that the new Bond girl will challenge Bond and make him deal with Vesper's betrayal. So, it'll be a continuation.

YESSSSSS!!!

That's great news! I thought Casino Royale was probably the best Bond film I'd seen, though I really love 'em all (well, except Moonraker- what a crap fest that was...). Although I am a little disappointed that it won't be directly based on a Fleming novel. I guess they are out of Fleming material though.

I thought CR did a fantasic job of being "real" - ie - what type of person would you really have to be to have that kind of job, and what kind of person would having that job make you. It sounds like they may continue in that vein. Very cool news!

I was never a Bond fan. I just went with Malik just to be with him. I wouldn't go see Casino Royale though when it came out and Malik kept telling me, "You've got to see this one." So, I went, and I was so surprised! I love that movie. It is one of my favorite movies. I mean, I cried! No one cries at a Bond flick! So, I am really excited about seeing it. I think Daniel Craig is an incredible Bond.

I cried through the last 3 or 4 Roger Moore Bond movies, but that's just because I kept thinking about what I could have done with my money instead......

KiGirl, if you really liked the CR movie, you may want to check out the Fleming novel it was based on. Fleming was actually a pretty decent writer, and the CR movie follows the book reasonably close. I mean, there are some time period and technology related differences, 'cause it's a cold war type novel, but the overall plot is pretty similar. And some of the best sequences in the movie (IMO) were the scences surrounding the card game and it's aftermath. That section in the novel was almost exactly the same ebb and flow to it.

Thanks, Mortice. I'll do that. I really liked the interaction b/w Bond and Le Chiffre. I bet there interaction is cool in the book too.

Casino Royale was, by far, my favorite Bond flick. The others were good, but I always felt mildly offended by the "suave" bond. It just didn't appeal to me, as I've never even SEEN a martini in real life.

The CR Bond was MUCH better. The same suave lines, but THIS time with a healthy undertone of asskicking.

speaking of martini, i loved that part in CR when he orders a martini after he had some violent encounter, and the bartender asked him, "shaken or stirred?" and bond replies, "do i look like i give a damn?" it was like the movie tried to get away from some of the bond stereotypes. and i liked too how after he was in a fight, the next scene, you could still see the marks of the fight. he got bloody, he got sweaty, he got dirty...he even screwed up. he seemed more real than any other bond and i think that is what made this bond the most likeable to me.

Thunderball is undoubtedly the greatest Bond film, but CR was a first class re-invention. I too like the way they flaunted, not only Bond, but action movie conventions also. For instance:

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Bond didn't even get to be the one to kill or even fight the main bad gy, who dies fairly ignominiously.

Good point, Montressor. I also liked the fact that Bond

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didn't actually end up sleeping with the first female to be interested in him.

All good points. If the next film carries on in the same vein as Casino Royale, I'll be most pleased.

Of the novels, I've only read Dr No (though I'm part way through Live and Let Die) but even based on just that one, it's clear that Craig's Bond is the closest to Fleming's original. I agree about him seeming more human; rather than being a superhuman killing machine he's just a man who's well trained and very skilled. It makes a world of difference seeing him actually struggling to succeed.

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It hadn't occurred to me that Bond wasn't the one who offed the main villain, but I have a new appreciation for that now it's been pointed out. I agree about the women too: he did sleep with one woman before he met Vesper, but unlike in almost all other Bond films, he did so purely to get information out of her. And I thought it was a nice touch that she knew his reasons and didn't really care. It startled me when I read both Dr No and Live and Let Die that the written Bond, unlike his screen counterpart, actually sincerely cared about the women he met. The relationships develop over time and he genuinely respects the women he chooses, rather than caddishly using them and casting them aside.

I am a Bond fan from way back and CR is by far one of the best. I thought Daniel Craig did a fantastic job and I am happy to see the news of the new one.

Craig is not a particularly good looking man but he is sexy as hell. Heh.

I loved Casino Royale, but the chair scene still makes me wince.

Heh, yes, I'm sure it would. But, that would explain why Bond never had children despite his many conquests.

Calais wrote:Heh, yes, I'm sure it would. But, that would explain why Bond never had children despite his many conquests.

I'm amazed he was in a fit condition for conquest after that. Ever.

But that's another example of the human Bond. In the books, Bond suffers. In Dr No, he's forced to go through a hellish ventilation shaft maze full of spiders and red-hot metal and all kinds of nasty stuff - and, as I recall, he's reduced to bare animal consciousness by the time he escapes, driven on only by unthinking, primal rage and fear. Oh yes, Bond suffers.

I've wanted for a few years to see a series of Bond films based more closely on the books, and it looks like the Craig era is going to do a fair job of granting that wish.

Clouseau wrote:I loved Casino Royale, but the chair scene still makes me wince.

it made me wince for the guys.

Wince is putting it mildly. And again, that scene is straight from the book.

CovJr's points are all great regardling the literary Bond. He struggles, he screws up, he hurts, he builds real relationships, he doesn't always get the girl.... in short, he's human.

There is an actual arc to the novels, BTW, where you can see real growth in the character. And some of the novels are very closely linked. If anyone's interested, let me know and I'll post the sequence.

Mortice Root wrote: If anyone's interested, let me know and I'll post the sequence.

i'm interested

Well, here you go then.

Casino Royale
Live And Let Die
Moonraker
Diamonds Are Forever
From Russia With Love
Doctor No
Goldfinger
For Your Eyes Only
Thunderball
The Spy Who Loved Me
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
You Only Live Twice
The Man With The Golden Gun
Octopussy/The Living Daylights


For Your Eyes Only and Octopussy are short story collections, the later published posthumously. Golden Gun is also posthumous, and in parts, sort of reads like an unpolished copy. A few of them have some pretty overt rascism (Live and Let Die) on Fleming's part, but probably within normal range for the 50's. The other oddball is Spy Who Loved Me, which is a first person narrative from the POV of the "Bond girl". Bond doesn't even appear until about 2/3 of the way through. It's actually pretty darn good.

My favorites are CR, You Only Live Twice, and From Russia... The other one that I just love is "Quantum of Solace" which is a short story in For Your Eyes Only. All it is an after dinner conversation between Bond and some reitred general (maybe?) where the general is telling a story about the disintegration of a young couple he knew. Very un-Bond like, but to me, it really shows how good of a writer Fleming could be.