Kevin's Watch

Okay, my kids have each read the Hobbitt.

I don't think they are yeat ready to read LOTR; but last week I let them watch the movies...I think they're up to three times each now.

Today One of my kids asked me the simplest question:

"Why didn't Sauron dissapear when He wore the ring?"

The only answer I could give, was that "Because it was His ring, and He contolled it."

THEN he wondered if someone other than the Elf-Ring bearers wore one of their rings, if THEY would dissapear.

Comments...?

Drew, I think your answer about Sauron was the best one you could give. It's what I would have said, too. We are told that each bearer of the ring is only given power appropriate to his stature - so while Frodo could turn invisible and see more of the "unseen" world, he couldn't dominate anyone's will. Seems reasonable that Sauron could pretty much make the ring do whatever he wanted too, when it was in his possesion.

I don't think we're ever told whether or not the other rings (elf, dwarf, man) can make their wearers invisible. The nine, of course, eventually turned their bearers into wraiths, but that was a gradual process.

drew wrote:THEN he wondered if someone other than the Elf-Ring bearers wore one of their rings, if THEY would dissapear.

Comments...?

The Elves made the Three; Sauraon had no hand in them. Sauron's rings--the ones he made--were the ones that made you invisible, such as the Nine (the Nazgul's rings). The Seven were meant to make the Dwarves invisible, but certain traits of their race kept them from turning into wraiths.

Invisibility was all part of Sauron extending his influence. Once you entered the wraith world, Sauron could see you, and you eventually gave into the ring's power and became his servant.

Interestingly, the Elven Rings were invisible when put on. I guess Galadriel didn't like showing off her jewelry.

Answer: because Tolkien didn't know that Bilbo found the One Ring when he wrote the Hobbit. The tale grew in the telling.

Actually, I think the stature thing is probably how he justified it. Sauron was already a "wraith," a spirit who donned a physical form. His physical form was a kind of illusion, which he could change, and had very little to do with his actual nature. So the ring's effect on his appearance would naturally be different from its effect on a mortal's body.

"The tale grew in the telling."

Yup. I don't think the whole second age history (the rings, Numenor, Sauron as a gift-giver) was concieved of until part way through writing LOTR, as opposed to the first age stuff, which had been in existance a long time.

Of course, Bombadil didn't disappear when he wore the ring...that must mean something.

Dromond wrote:Of course, Bombadil didn't disappear when he wore the ring...that must mean something.

Bombadil was specifically written as an unknown.
A supremely powerful yet flaky oddball.

I myself consider him an "Unfettered Valar".

Personal opinion...

The Rings specifically made by Sauron are designed (or at any rate function) to bring the wearer/wielder into the spirit realm. In other words, it turns mortals into wraiths. Eventually. But it takes time, depending on the inherent strength and nature of the Ring-bearer. Men fell relatively quickly, whereas Dwarves never faded at all. Hobbits fell under the Ring's sway slowly. But Elves and Wizards and other immortal beings (like Sauron) already exist in both this world and in the spirit realm. So the Ring won't make them invisible.

JMHO

In [u]The Lord of the Rings[/u] was wrote:But Sméagol returned alone; and he found that none of his family could see him, when he was wearing the ring. He was very pleased with his discovery and he concealed it; and he used it to find out secrets, and he put his knowledge to crooked and malicious uses. He became sharp-eyed and keen-eared for all that was hurtful. The ring had given him power according to his stature.

That, I believe, is the key.

I have formed the opinion that, because Hobbits are very stealthy and quiet people ("They possessed from the first the art of disappearing swiftly and silently, when large folk whom they do not wish to meet come blundering by; and this an they have developed until to Men it may seem magical.") that the Ring bestowed upon them an unusual increase in this inate ability. A power that was in accord with their stature.

wayfriend wrote:

In [u]The Lord of the Rings[/u] was wrote:But Sméagol returned alone; and he found that none of his family could see him, when he was wearing the ring. He was very pleased with his discovery and he concealed it; and he used it to find out secrets, and he put his knowledge to crooked and malicious uses. He became sharp-eyed and keen-eared for all that was hurtful. The ring had given him power according to his stature.

That, I believe, is the key.

I have formed the opinion that, because Hobbits are very stealthy and quiet people ("They possessed from the first the art of disappearing swiftly and silently, when large folk whom they do not wish to meet come blundering by; and this an they have developed until to Men it may seem magical.") that the Ring bestowed upon them an unusual increase in this inate ability. A power that was in accord with their stature.

I don't think that's the case.
The Ring didn't augment the Hobbit's natural stealthy nature.
The fact that:

He became sharp-eyed and keen-eared for all that was hurtful

is indicative of his evil character due not from any rise of his native "power".
I think the last sentence in the passage you quoted is being used to explain how he can turn invisible the first sentence (in the same passage).

Zahir wrote:Personal opinion...

The Rings specifically made by Sauron are designed (or at any rate function) to bring the wearer/wielder into the spirit realm. In other words, it turns mortals into wraiths. Eventually. But it takes time, depending on the inherent strength and nature of the Ring-bearer. Men fell relatively quickly, whereas Dwarves never faded at all. Hobbits fell under the Ring's sway slowly. But Elves and Wizards and other immortal beings (like Sauron) already exist in both this world and in the spirit realm. So the Ring won't make them invisible.

JMHO

I think you nailed it.