Kevin's Watch

If LF and Kevin together spoke the ROD and all life (except LF and that which was sent away by Kevin) was destroyed, how come there are still a butt load of ur-viles at the time of ill-earth war? Thousands. Did LF warn his "people" also? Sure, Cavewrights can reprouduce - but not Ur-viles - so why so many?

We know absolutely nothing about the nature of the Ur-Viles.

Cshaw71 wrote:We know absolutely nothing about the nature of the Ur-Viles.

I thought they were black, roynish creatures - made by the Demondim, with arms and legs of equal length (more able to run on all fours), bald heads, pointed ears high on their heads, wet noses, no eyes, fight in wedges, lore wise, traditional enemies of the Lord's and minions of Lord Foul, kin to the Waynhim, and non-reproductive.

Other than that, I guess we know nothing...

It's possible that Lord Foul, knowing he'd survive, would prepare his minions for the day when he would be an evil overlord once again.

It's possible that the ur-viles survived far under Mount Thunder, below where the Ritual was able to reach. Or that, knowing of it, they fled into remote realms, to return later.

It may even be that they were partially immune, since they are not natural beings, and don't partake of the Earth's power.

I thought they were black, roynish creatures - made by the Demondim, with arms and legs of equal length (more able to run on all fours), bald heads, pointed ears high on their heads, wet noses, no eyes, fight in wedges, lore wise, traditional enemies of the Lord's and minions of Lord Foul, kin to the Waynhim, and non-reproductive.

Other than that, I guess we know nothing...

Smart ass response not withstanding. We know nothing of thier purpose or (Wierd). You described physical and some Behavioral attributes. Maybe it was thier Wierd that saved them and LF had nothing to do with it. LF had no reason to warn anybody, I think he pretty sure he could rustle up minions anytime he needed them. The ravers make really good recruiting officers.

wayfriend wrote:It's possible that Lord Foul, knowing he'd survive, would prepare his minions for the day when he would be an evil overlord once again.

It's possible that the ur-viles survived far under Mount Thunder, below where the Ritual was able to reach. Or that, knowing of it, they fled into remote realms, to return later.

It may even be that they were partially immune, since they are not natural beings, and don't partake of the Earth's power.

These speculations are as good as any....I've always thought it was because the ur-viles were deep inside Mt. Thunder.

[quote="Cshaw71"]


Smart ass response not withstanding. quote]

Take it easy - no offense was intended - don't get all Covenant on me. Remember your Oath!

There's a smiley for you!

I always thought that being made creatures, and being as lore-wise, as they were, they would have no need of Foul to protect or warn them.

Where does it say that at the time of the Illearth war that ur-viles can't reproduce? I'm pretty sure it said that they still worked in their breeding pits, mostly making ur-viles, sometimes making waynhim, and that Vain represented the capstone of their long labours and experimentation in those efforts.

Spoiler

It seems that by the time of the Last Chrons they've lost the ability to reproduce - I thought, but I'll have to check that it was a combination of the Sunbane, and then Foul's vengence on them for Vain that sent them extinct, until Esmer did his little time tricks.

Also, as mentioned, being as lore-wise as they are, I doubt they needed Kevin or LF to warn them. Although undoubtedly many of them probably perished at the time.

thefirst wrote:I always thought that being made creatures, and being as lore-wise, as they were, they would have no need of Foul to protect or warn them.

Yeah, but they were able to be warped by the Sunbane...the dececreation I'm sure could have hurt them; and I beleive ROD killed all the demondim, dit it not?

dlbpharmd wrote:

wayfriend wrote:It's possible that Lord Foul, knowing he'd survive, would prepare his minions for the day when he would be an evil overlord once again.

It's possible that the ur-viles survived far under Mount Thunder, below where the Ritual was able to reach. Or that, knowing of it, they fled into remote realms, to return later.

It may even be that they were partially immune, since they are not natural beings, and don't partake of the Earth's power.

These speculations are as good as any....I've always thought it was because the ur-viles were deep inside Mt. Thunder.

I'm not so sure about the idea that they had some immunity to the Ritual, but maybe they simply protected themselves by grouping together in wedges, with each loremaster deflecting the raving power of the Ritual. Any ur-vile unlucky enough to be caught alone would've been toast of course. Then again, if the ur-viles could protect themselves, then Lord Foul should have been able to as well. Or maybe he was just way too close to it.

Anyway, if the ur-viles were hiding in Mt. Thunder, I wonder if some of them managed to get a grandstand view of Kevin and Lord Foul as the two initiated the Ritual.

drew wrote:I believe ROD killed all the demondim, did it not?

That sounds right, though I can't remember where in the books it says that.

Must be the mountains they were under..

Remember the Cavewrights also survived.


Really they were having a party while the RoD was going on and nobody told them that they wer suppose to croak. Besides SRD never told how many were created by the Demondin.

Isn't it still unclear exactly what the Ritual of Desecration actually did? Donaldson, himself, mentions that he hasn't really thought fully about what form it took . . .

I have always been under the impression that it didn't necessarily "kill" everthing - in fact, it has always seemed a given to me that the Ritual left a lot of life hanging on . . . I don't imagine that all the people left in the land simply "died" - rather, some withered under the power of the Ritual while the survivors struggled in a sort of "post-apocalyptic" (in this case post-Ritual of Desecrated) Land.

Perhaps some forms of life were more susceptible to the Ritual than others - the Demondim for example.

Anyway, mabe the ur-viles did nothing special. Some were destroyed and some survived. It seems that everything had some survivors as there are still Kresh, humans, aliantha, birds, frogs, grass, trees, etc. I don't imagine these all came to from outside the Land to repopulate it.

The Ritual of Desecration simply didn't seem to have destroyed everything . . .

matrixman wrote:

drew wrote:I believe ROD killed all the demondim, did it not?

That sounds right, though I can't remember where in the books it says that.

Spoiler

Esmer confirms it to Linden in FR when they talk to each other near Glimmermere.

Beyondthebreach wrote:I have always been under the impression that it didn't necessarily "kill" everthing - in fact, it has always seemed a given to me that the Ritual left a lot of life hanging on . . . I don't imagine that all the people left in the land simply "died" - rather, some withered under the power of the Ritual while the survivors struggled in a sort of "post-apocalyptic" (in this case post-Ritual of Desecrated) Land.

Oh, the Desecration was very devastating. Kurash Plenethor demonstrates how it wiped out all life down into the soil; nothing was left but desecrated dirt.

Imagine Trell's Ritual in the Close ... extended to the size of the Upper Land ... the power scaled up as much as the size ...

All this talk of Ur-viles and Cavewights reproducing got me to wondering, does anyone know HOW they would reproduce? Are there females of the two species? I don't recall ever hearing mention of any females, not in the battles, neither on the surface nor below. I could have missed it over the course of the past 30 years, of course, but I just don't recall that. There is mention of female Haruchai, female Giants, female humans, female Ranyhyn, etc. I don't even remember females being mentioned in Hamako's care. Just a thought........

I don't think urviles would reproduce in the 'normal' way we would think of it. They're likely sexless and probably would have to make more through lore.

As to the Cavewights, they do seem to be 'natural' creatures of Law, but beyond that... [shudder]. TMI

I thought the Ur-Viles continued the work of the Demondim in their breeding pits, and that occasionally one of these creatures was an Ur-Vile, and occasionally one would be a Waynhim?

Tsukasa Logged Out wrote:I thought the Ur-Viles continued the work of the Demondim in their breeding pits, and that occasionally one of these creatures was an Ur-Vile, and occasionally one would be a Waynhim?

That was my understanding as well.

However, regarding the Cavewights, didn't using the Staff of Law deform Drool? That would seem to go against them being natural creatures, unless the Staff warps those who abuse its power...

Wait, I thought Drool was deformed by the Illearth Stone fragment he had with him. That was the last we saw of him, on the slopes of Mt Thunder, coercing the ur-viles to attack the company of the Quest.

And I agree that the ur-viles were incapable of reproducing through sex, they were made beings themselves. Actually, weren't the Demondim made beings as well? The Viles made the Demondim, because the Viles themselves had been rendered impotent by Loric Vilesilencer, right?