Kevin's Watch

To all those who knew and lost loved ones 2 years ago, when Evil reared it's ugly head, My sympathies. May we never forget...

Peace,
Furls Fire

"Where were you when the world stopped turning that September morn..."

Here Here!

Amen.

Some of my friends from an online video game I played lost some loved ones/ones they were close to in that tragedy. One person I know of shielded his little brother, letting the debris fall on him instead, taking his life in the process but saving the life of his little brother.

Anyway, I have felt the effects of this tragedy at least second-hand, I suppose. I remember exactly where I was: Coach Bishop's American history class my junior year, watching it all live. The first image I saw of it was small trails of smoke coming from one of the towers, thinking, "Well, that's nothing. Maybe a few stories got taken out, but that'll be it." Of course, I was wrong, unfortunately.

Second thing I remember was watching a split-screen of the smoke coming from the WTC and the Pentagon, and I didn't recognize the Pentagon for the smokestack, and plus, the camera was far away. I recall going to a friend, “Okay I’m confused. I know about New York--but why? Why is the camera on Washington too?" And then he went “they hit the Pentagon too!” Both of us were pretty awestruck to the widespread-ness of the attacks--how they hit both New York and Washington. We almost laughed aloud--my friend and me--at how shocking it was. Sometimes true emotions can't be found or are too hard to deal with, so you have to laugh it off, as if it's not real. And trust me, nothing in my wildest dreams could've conceived such a day as 9/11/01! What tragedy it was.

You know, I've had mixed feelings about the 9/11 tragedy and the American reaction to it......It was a very real and terrible tragedy......so many innocent people, and so many heroes lost their lives......and it was horrible.......but then it turned into some kind of media orgy......showing the same images over and over......knowing you were watching people dying on TV.......in a way it was entirely revolting......all the televised coverage of church services and candlelight vigils.......the people who were present at those events needed a way to release their grief......but to me the media turned it into a sick voyuerism thing.......almost gloating over juciness of the story......and then that horrible patriotism backlash, and everything that followed......people mounting American Flags on their cars......in a way it was cool......but in another way, it seemed to me that it quickly became about showing the world that we couldn't be cowed......not that that's a bad thing, I guess, it's just that it was allegedly about remembering the dead......I heard not too long ago that They were planning to release the 911 tapes of the panicked doomed people trapped in those buildings......UGH......why would They do such a thing?.....Oh well, I'm probably being really controversial about now......such was not my intent.....I'm sorry if I offended anyone......I've never really understood my own reaction to 9/11......I can't look at the infamous images, or hear that Enya song, or that WTC remix of The World I Know, without tears......and a faint sense of disgust......I was up really late last night, and I looked at my alarm clock and it said 9/11 3:44 am......and I couldn't help but think how many mothers and fathers, wives and children and husbands and siblings and on and on, were peacefully asleep, or making love, or doing whatever they did at 3:44 am on 9/11/01.......with no idea they had less than five hours to live......


To all the people who lost their lives, and all the others who had to do the infinitely harder thing and survive to pick up the pieces, our thoughts and prayers are with you......

*bows head*

I pray for the victims' souls, the victims' families, the soldiers overseas, and may God have mercy on the souls of the terrorists.

Bird,

I think there is a certain amount of sensationalism that has occurred around 9/11 and certainly unscrupulous people have profited from the disaster by exploiting the images and events for personal gain. I don't condone that. However, history has recorded these events and the images serve as a reminder that we are fighting a war against an enemy who wishes nothing less than the total annhiliation of the U.S. and our way of life. An enemy who will deliberately target innocent civilians in order to forward their cause. We must remember this and remain steadfast in our goal to eradicate terrorism from the globe.

In light of this I find the patriotism that arose after 9/11/01 to be heartening. It was a clear message that the US would not be cowed and that spirit was and will remain a tribute to those who perished needlessly. It wasn't just about memorializing the dead...It was also about showing our enemy that we would not fracture in the face of adversity...It was about presenting a united front.

I don't understand how you can describe that Patriotism as "horrible"...and I state that with all due respect. You are as entitled to your feelings and opinions as I or any other and I don't seek to invalidate your feelings...I just seek to understand.

Well, sometimes patriotism fleshes out too much--becomes nationalism, almost. It's like a reverse-coin apathy. Whereas with apathy we allow ourselves to be controlled, with patriotism we sometimes allow the opposite by imposing upon others.

Patriotism can also be exploited by national figures/leaders, but that's another story all unto itself . . . And it belongs in the Think-Tank, not here!

It was a horrible time for us. We dealt with it by uniting as a nation, unfurling our flags, standing against the evil that targeted the innocent. It was in respect and honor to all those lives lost, the heroism of the NYPD, NYFD, Port Authority and countless volumteers who tried to save the hundreds that were trapped, and died themselves. It was in honor of the people on Flight 93 who thwarted the hijackers that were headed toward the White House and ended up crashing in the field in Pennsylvania. It was in honor of those who died at the Pentagon. It was in honor of all those innocents...men, woman, children on those hijacked planes that became the bombs of these cowards who kill children and called it "holy war."

I don't see how the patriotism of our nation can be called "horrible"...it was in honor, respect, and such deep overwhelming sorrow. The media has it's own agenda. But as a citizin of the United States of America, I have flown my flag from my front porch proudly since before and now with further pride after the events of 9/11/01.

Sorry, if I'm coming off a little "heated". But this whole event rocked our world. And I know there are those unscrupulous ones who are using this for their own gains. But the majority of Americans were and are devastated...and continue to try to heal.

Peace,
Tracie

"America, America...God shed his grace on thee"

I don't post this to argue with anyone, but I feel there are other post-9/11 changes that have come over America, and we shouldn't ignore them.

For example, I'm riding in the car, and I go past a large sign of a local business and it reads in big, bold letters:

THIS IS ONE NATION UNDER GOD OR GET THE HECK OUT!

Not only did I find that offensive and ignorant, but also I found that such fervor was never publicly stuffed down my throat until after 9/11. I mean, redneck-ism used to be an at-home thing, and now it's literally plastered on the street!

May those who lost their lives that day rest in peace.

Our enemies, and enemies they are, like to say that they love death as we love life. It must not be forgotten that given the chance, they would perform the same type of operation as they did two years ago. Does that mean that we round up everyone from the Middle East in this country? No. The vast majority are here for the same reasons that our ancestors came over here for - a better life. We are not immune in this country from screwballs. Timothy McVeigh was homegrown. But a better job must be done, and has been done, in monitoring and harrassing what are fringe groups in that part of the world.

Sorry to have gone off topic on what is a rememberance thread, but that needs to be remembered too.

Lord Simian wrote:

THIS IS ONE NATION UNDER GOD OR GET THE HECK OUT!

Did you see that right after 9/11, or while that silliness was going on in Alabama?

I see now what you mean. The 10 Commandments thing probably triggered it, so my example was flawed! But the essence of what I've been saying still remains:

In my hometown there’s been an overall, visible change ever since 9/11 happened--a reactionary step back for older, much more conservative times. A recoiling, if you will. I know, because I've personally experienced it around my classmates at school when I was in high school for the last two years. Heck, I was a part of that said recoiling until I myself wised up. Most, though, have not.

Good Lord! reading back over that I can't believe I actually phrased it that way. It wasn't the patriotism of the people that bothered me. I thought the way the country drew together was wonderful. But there were some segments of the population that immediately fixated on the idea of, not justice, but revenge - and flew their flags for that reason. For two days after 9/11 the 7-11 down the street from my house had a patrol car in the parking lot 'round the clock. To protect the middle-eastern employees. Just in case. Maybe it's just where I live, but it seemed to me there was a lot of that. There was a mosque burned to the ground in the town I grew up in. And with the help of the media, blithely propagandizing away, this darker side of nationalism provided fuel for what seemed to me to be someone's private agenda.

And that's all I'm gonna say about that. I'm no good at political debate, and we've already hashed this part of it to death in the Think-Tank. In other words it was (with the exception of a few rednecks) the politics that followed that I objected to, not the outpouring of support and national pride evinced by the majority of the people.

And I knew I wasn't making that as clear as I should when I posted earlier. I hung my own stupid self.

Thanks for the clarification Bird. And no, you didn't hang yourself...you just had the courage to voice a differing opinion and I applaud you for that.

Oh Bird, I agree totally with what you are saying. The revenge was awful and the targeting of the Muslim people is/was terrible. And about the media, I just say "touche" to what you said about them. I too, am no good at political debate, I don't really understand too much about politics TOO debate. I started this thread in remembrance of those lost. I'm sorry if I flared up. I guess we all still have alot of healing to do.

huggles bird!!

I vividly remember sitting at my desk here at work and listening to the radio as each terrible event unfolded. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing and everyone in my office was stunned, frozen by the moment. Once I got home that night I finally saw the horrible images of what I had been hearing and I spent the rest of the evening watching and praying. For at least two weeks afterward I couldn’t shake a cloud of doom that had settled about me. I couldn’t take joy in anything in my life. The simple pleasures of daily existence seemed inappropriate. But as time passed I was able to finally deal with my feelings and return to the business of life. I wrote and recorded a song that helped me express my feelings in a positive way. With each anniversary of that horrible day, I relive a taste of how I felt. But we adapt. We survive. 9/11irrevocably altered our perception of the world. We aren’t the same people we were before we were attacked, but that doesn’t mean we have to allow the pain and fear to overwhelm us. I am very proud to be a citizen of the United States of America. God bless us all.

Ok, this might light a few fires, but here goes... I'm a patriotic person, but most people wouldn't know it. I don't wear, wave, or hoist a flag. You'll never hear me say something like, "America kicks ass!" Instead, I've chosen to serve my country in the way I can. I've taken it upon myself to know the Constitution. I know more than a little bit about the history and geography. For me, patriotism is quiet and is constant.

My point is, I don't think a lot of the things that have been labeled as the increase in patriotism has lead to an increase in better citizens. I don't want to call it jingoism or nationalism, I don't even want to imply that it's a bad thing, but it feels like saying you love your mother more because she can protect you from the bully around the block that threatened you.

The bully hasn't been seen in a while, and now most of the people have gone back to the level they were at, but they've kept the slogans.

Yesterday on the radio... really, it made me nauseated. All these "patriotic" songs. If your cause is embodied in any of the country songs... maybe (very big emphasis on the maybe) the ideals behind the cause are as superficial as your average country lyrics. Seriously, they all sound like truck commercials.

People have forgotten the cause and kept the slogans. Maybe it should be the other way around.

Caer Sylvanus wrote:Yesterday on the radio... really, it made me nauseated. All these "patriotic" songs. If your cause is embodied in any of the country songs... maybe (very big emphasis on the maybe) the ideals behind the cause are as superficial as your average country lyrics. Seriously, they all sound like truck commercials.

Couldn't agree with ya more, Syl! They played that stuff at the local spa where I worked out, and I don’t know what was more funny--the actual song or the rednecks in there getting down to it! Anyway, my patriotism I suppose is not the pulpit kind either but the quiet, subtle kind. My family's given what little they can to this country (especially my grandfather). If I'm needed, I'll give too, but I don't think I'll ever top him!

Caer Sylvanus wrote:People have forgotten the cause and kept the slogans. Maybe it should be the other way around.

I agree.