Kevin's Watch

Posted: **Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:05 am**

Time has a way of catching up with us, eventually it will cost us the greatest minds of our time. Sadly authors are sometimes taken from us before they get the chance to finish their work, and sometimes they find they have given all they have to give. The fact that they have created beloved characters, and storylines, in a sense lends them an aspect of immortality . This being said, there are just some stories that require resolution, or stories that are just so good that they cant be allowed to die. When Robert E. Howard died, ( a tragic story in itself ) the fantasy fiction world nearly lost one of its most popular, and enduring characters, CONAN THE BARBARIAN, if it were not for authors like L. Sprague De Camp, Lin Carter, or Robert Jordan that would have been the end of our beloved savage. These authors were also fans, and, could not resist the urge to pick up where Howard left off. So its time to give them their due for all they have given us. Who in your opinion, has done the best job of picking up another authors legacy and running with it ?

Posted: **Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:48 pm**

Actually the Lin Carter you mention above is somewhat responsible for saving the fantasy genre as a whole in America and preserving the great stories of H. P. Lovecraft.

In the '70s Ballentine Adult Fantasy thread I wrote:Even before SRD hit the scene with really only Tolkien, almost single handedly, keeping the genre afloat ol' Lin Carter helped to revive interest in fantasy in America. Yes the same Lin Carter who mopped up the unfinished Conans with L. Sprauge deCamp. I saw him on a late night local New York talk show in early 1970 promoting The Ballentine Books Adult Fantasy Series. Ballentine initially reprinted The Hobbit and LOTR in the 60s in popular paperbacks but, aside from Lewis' Narnia books (viewed primarily as children's books, at the time), very little was known about classic fantasy and the few available contemporary writers.

Carter, hired as the series editor, educated the audience on three of the original masters of modern fantasy: Lord Dunsany, William Morris & E. R. Eddison. He was also promoting Dreamquest of the Unknown Kadath by H. P. Lovecraft. Dreamquest sounded so weird and cool and Eddison's The Worm Oroborous sounded so intense that I immediately went out and bought them (before I ever read Tolkien) and have remained hooked on the genre ever since...Here is the original series list of authors, with the books I have read. I highly recommend The Kai Lung stories, they are very magical and endearing (but very hard to find).

*William Morris--The Wood Beyond the World vols 1&2, The Water of Wonderous Isles, The Well at the World's End.
*E.R.Eddison--The Worm Oroborous, Mistress of Mistresses, A Fish Dinner in Memison, The Mezentian Gate.
*Lord Dunsany--The Charwoman's Shadow, The King of Elfland's Daughter, Beyond the Fields We Know.
*James Branch Cabell
*George MacDonald--Lilith
*C.K. Chesterton
*Katherine Kurtz
*Ludovico Ariosto--Orlando Furioso (which is basically The Song of Roland)
*Ernest Braman--Kai Lung Unrolls His Mat, Kai Lung's Golden Hours
*Evangeline Watson--Songs of Rhiannon
*Hope Mirrless--Lud in the Mist
*Mervyn Peake--Gormonghast, Titus Groan
*William Hope Hogdson--The Nightland vols 1&2, The Boats of the "Glen Carig"
*Hannes Bok--The Sorcerer's Ship, The Golden Staircase
*Fletcher Pratt
*Peter S. Beagle--The Last Unicorn
*David Lindsay--Voyage to Acturus

Posted: **Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:33 pm**

For the most part it seems that it is falling mainly on direct descendants of the original authors, Tolkien, Herbert, and I believe McCafferey have all produced heirs willing to carry on their legacies.

Posted: **Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:51 pm**

Yea maybe, but on the other hand, I might feel a lot better if people like Tolkein and Herberts "heirs" would write their own stuff, and not try and recreate something which they didn't have the same vision for, if you know what I mean.

It's rare indeed that a second generation can carry on the original creators work without degrading it.

--A

Posted: **Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:06 pm**

I agree, originality is welcome at any time, but I am a huge fan of the Backstory. If Christopher Tolkien had not delved into his fathers past writings, The Silmarillion may have been lost forever.

Posted: **Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:51 am**

Then you have Donaldson, who is adamantly against having another author taking his creations and "running with it." Just saying.

I haven't read enough to be able to reply to Mr. Broken's question in this thread.

Posted: **Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:00 am**

Hopefully Donaldson will be able to finish his work before... well you know. Im sure if Tolkien had finished the Silmarillion himself , or any of his works aside from the LOTR trilogy I would have cherished them even more than I do, but Im convinced that a sense of closure, is sometimes the next best thing to originality, and dont get me started on backstory, I crave the little details, as much as signjficant events. I started this thread because I noticed that we carry on this very trend every day here on Kevins Watch. We spend our time finishing each others sentences, replying to each others topics, and speculating on the theories , and beliefs of other Watchers ( I almost said people ). We carry on each others works.

Posted: **Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:01 am**

I have a real problem with the likes of the Tolkien and Herbert legacies; when is enough enough? Is the latest History of Middle Earth vol XXXIX or Legends of Dune 27 actually about the original vision any more or does the grubby scent of the cash register linger in the air?

Posted: **Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:30 pm**

Brasidas wrote:...or does the grubby scent of the cash register linger in the air?

My exact problem. Less with Tolkein than with Herbert, I mean, I enjoyed Unfinished Tales for example. (Didn't think he had that much to do with the Silmarillion though, but I could easily be mistaken.)

--A

Posted: **Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:37 pm**

Oh, please...

Don't get me started on Todd McCaffrey (Johnson)...

Posted: **Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:59 pm**

A work colleague went straight from the original 'Dune' to that god-awful 'Hunters of Dune' and cannot even bear to hear Herbert's name mentioned anymore - completely ruined the original masterpiece that the real Herbert wrote as he can't get that lame brained piece of rubbish out of his mind. I wonder how many people look at all these sequels and prequels as exactly the proof they need not to take scifi/fantasy seriously?
And who was it invented that horrid word 'prequel' anyway ?!?

Posted: **Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:37 pm**

I prefer to read my epic sagas's in the order they were written in.

Posted: **Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:51 pm**

Mr. Broken wrote:I prefer to read my epic sagas's in the order they were written in.

*nodding*

By published date for me.
Narnia, Pern, Shannara, whatever.
The author published them in a certain order for a reason.

The magic of the dragons of Pern would have been lost on me if I had read Dragonsdawn before I read Dragonsflight.

Posted: **Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:58 am**

Believe me I have nothing but respect for originality, but imitation is a necessary fact of life, its how we teach our children to read, and write. Its how we train employee's to perform their functions. Einsteins theories didnt cease being relevant at the moment of his death. We call this progress, we call it refinement, and over time it almost always leads to a new way of doing things.

Posted: **Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:29 pm**

You should try the "Third" Foundation books, I think the "Killer Bs" have done a formitable job with them-

Foundation's Fear-Gregory Benford
Foundation and Chaos-Greg Bear
Foundation's Triumph-David Brin

Posted: **Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:35 pm**

Beorn enjoyed them.
For whatever that's worth.

Posted: **Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:31 am**

WHAT!????

Beorn's a genius-whachutalkinboutWillis!?

Posted: **Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:43 am**

*shrug*
I'm biased.
Besides, as long as it's fantasy,
he's not all that discerning...
...yet...

For example...

He's in the middle of his first read through of The Wheel of Time. I mentioned how everyone here says after the fifth book or so the pace drags and the rest of the books are difficult to get through (I have not read the series myself). He thinks whoever says that is mistaken, and is still devouring the books one after another.

...and he's dying for me to get the second Malazan book for him...

Posted: **Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:08 am**

It's SciFi not fantasy, big difference. Don't you *shrugh* at me!!!

Posted: **Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:11 am**

Oh...the third Foundation trilogy? Yeah, he's not so discerning on S/F either. He did enjoy them.

Kevin's Watch

Pick up the ball and run!

Pick up the ball and run!