Kevin's Watch

Posted: **Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:45 pm**

I have to admit that the names SRD chooses irritated me quite a lot, almost made me not want to read the Chrons (but so glad I did). Drool Rockworm?? Lord Foul the Despiser? I was like, Seriously??

Now I understand that a factor in his choices was that he was trying to set himself apart from Tolkien, establish a distinct identity so as not to be compared with JRRT (as though he could avoid it). I respect that.

But even more bothersome was his use of words that meant something else, like he just opened up a Sanskrit or Hebrew dictionary and plunked down a finger and said "I think I'll call this horrible creature.... Moksha" (which means "liberation"!).

Well, that's my little whine-fest. Anyone else?

Posted: **Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:50 pm**

Fourth poll option added.

Posted: **Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:08 pm**

Mostly, I love them. The only name I didn't like was Drool.

The Sanskrit names for the Ravers he did choose carefully. He's described them as "that's how the Ravers see themselves, as being enlightment, liberation, etc" ... though I understand that just seeing them in print, we're all going to have our immediate reactions to them.

Posted: **Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:10 pm**

As we've learnt from GI the names of the Ravers were conscious choices from Hebrew and Sanskrit, with relevant meanings.

I for myself love his names, there's so much of them that hint at something familiar but are still unique, like Stonedown (-down can mean "dune, hill" but also "circle" in English place-names), Woodhelven, Revelstone, Haft, Mark, to name but a few.

Posted: **Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:21 pm**

They work for me.

Turiya Herem, Samadhi Sheol, Moksha Jehannum

Who cares what they mean, they sound great.

Posted: **Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:52 am**

Carson Napier wrote:They work for me.

Turiya Herem, Samadhi Sheol, Moksha Jehannum

Who cares what they mean, they sound great.

agreed.. I think i liked all the names even including drool rockworm. After all drool wasnt the most intelligent of creatures, most likely that name was not given to him by his mother and father, Foul probably named him that to amuse himself while he trained him to use the staff . Soulcrusher aka Fangthane aka A-Jeroth aka Lord Foul...he had many names..lord foul was just one given to him after his infiltration of the lords council was discovered.

what im surprised about is we never learned one Urvile Name through the first two series..not sure about the final ..ive only read runes so far. at least the urvile at the end of WGW barking into a pool of ebony in vindication of their creation vain should have been named.

WAIT...NM...there is one urvile name and i just name it..VAIN heh.

and LOL at the want to shave off SRDs eyebrows part of the poll..

Posted: **Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:00 am**

Not at all. Sure, I found Kevin, Garth and Trevor a little out of place, but at the same time they fit perfectly. I guess the story just swept me away and I didn't have time to worry.

Posted: **Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:52 pm**

Guess I haven't read enough of the interviews with SRD to know he made conscious choices about the Hebrew and Sanskrit words. He is certainly good enough at making names up (like Jehannum and Amorine) that I would have preferred he stick with that, but seeing as the universe doesn't revolve around me...

Posted: **Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:35 pm**

Jehannum is the Muslim word for Gehenna, or Hell (Sheol being the land of the dead, and Herem being Jewish excommunication). And Amorine is remarkably similar to amarine.

Posted: **Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:59 pm**

LOL. I was annoyed at some names. The SPEED-weed for the horses had a looong name for example. I'm the one who chose the eyebrow option

I couldn't resist myself. That was one funny option though of course I don't really think it.
By the way does A Jeroth have any meaning?

Posted: **Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:54 pm**

shadowbinding shoe wrote:LOL. I was annoyed at some names. The SPEED-weed for the horses had a looong name for example.

You mean amanibhavam? It is no longer than shadowbinding shoe...

Posted: **Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:43 pm**

amanibhavam wrote:
shadowbinding shoe wrote:LOL. I was annoyed at some names. The SPEED-weed for the horses had a looong name for example.
You mean amanibhavam? It is no longer than shadowbinding shoe...

Indeed I do. But while my name is a little long it is not (I am not) the cornerstone of a horsish culture.

Posted: **Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:13 am**

I voted kinda, but I got over it.
I thought some of the real world names needed help.
Sam Diadem's son?

Posted: **Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:28 pm**

deer of the dawn wrote:But even more bothersome was his use of words that meant something else, like he just opened up a Sanskrit or Hebrew dictionary and plunked down a finger and said "I think I'll call this horrible creature.... Moksha" (which means "liberation"!).

I asked him about this many years ago:

Fist:
Several years after reading the Covenant books, I started reading about Hinduism. Imagine my surprise! So my question is: what on earth posessed you to use the words moksha, samadhi, and turiya, considering their Hindu meanings, as the names of three of the most hideously evil beings I've ever seen? I guess that the ravers helped people move on to a higher plain.....Usually by torturing them to death. But that's not much of a connection.

Don't get me wrong, I love their names. Since I didn't know anything about Hinduism when I read your stuff, I just thought that you made up some very exotic words. But it works. It's interesting to have these other, completely different, associations with these words. I just think it's kind of strange that you knew the meanings of these words, and said, "I know! I'll take the words associated with the highest Hindu experiences, and make people who know nothing about Hinduism think nothing but evil when they hear them."

SRD:
A lot of people have asked your question; so I guess I didn't exactly make my intentions clear.
[I just think it's kind of strange that you knew the meanings of these words, and said, "I know! I'll take the words associated with the highest Hindu experiences, and make people who know nothing about Hinduism think nothing but evil when they hear them.]
Actually, that's *not* what I had in mind. I was trying to make what may have been an obscure point about the nature of evil. It's my belief that real evil doesn't perceive itself as evil: it perceives itself as enlightment. Sheol, Herem, and Jehannum (loosely translated: hell, genocide, and hell) are the "public" names of the Ravers; they represent the way the Ravers are perceived by the people of the Land. Moksha, turiya, and samadhi are the "private" names of the Ravers, their names for themselves. Like Hitler, Nixon, and Limbaugh, the Ravers do NOT go around saying, "I'm evil, and I'm proud." They say, "I'm better, smarter, wiser, and more important than you are, and so whatever happens to you while I get what I want is justified."

Does that help?

Posted: **Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:22 pm**

Well, I've had more traditional fantasy names hurled at me for awhile, and if I have to deal with another Ragnar I'll probably just fall over. The traditional fantasy name seems to be any two syllable word that isn't already a word in english.
They need to be exotic though. I mean, Thomas is already pretty mundane but still manages to carry, esp since people call him Covenant or Ur-Lord and "Tom" is almost strictly reserved for Joan. Even Kevin works okay, mostly through nicknames. I don't think I could have handled "Bob" though. Bob Landwaster. Bob the Unbeliever. Bob the despiser.

Posted: **Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:55 pm**

Coming from a Christain background and having read these as a young guy when they came out, I often wonder (Until years later I read the GI) about names and words with Christian type themes like Covenant, Thomas/doubter or unbeliever, Chronicles, redemption, damnation etc.

Personally I think the names are great and are one of many things that make these books worlds above books that are Tolkien rip-offs.

Posted: **Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:32 pm**

Nice topic of discussion.

I agree with you on Drool's name, Blackhawk. Foul originally giving him that name is a cool notion; I can't even picture the crazy Cavewights having real names. Drool probably felt more important having any name at all, and having no idea what it means.

Never had a problem with "real world" names like Trevor and Kevin. In the context of the Land they seem to ring true; SRD wouldn't use names like Michael, John or Robert. I know a Kevin here and he's nothing like the Landwaster!

One of my personal favorite SRD words is one that he has said he dislikes now: Elemesnedene, the Land of the Elohim. It just sounds so magical and otherworldly (if you can manage to pronounce it); it feels like it's partly made of the words "element" (Earthpower?) and "demesne", a dominion or territory.

Personally, I think SRD's names rival most other fantasy authors. At least they seem to have a base. One author I can think of that has the most terrible names is Terry Brooks' Shannara series. THEY used to drive me crazy.

Thank god I stopped reading him years ago.

Posted: **Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:41 pm**

Fist, that definitely does help. Thanks.

Btw, the suffix -dene indicates a valley. It's Scottish, I think. Just thought I'd throw that in.

Bob Landwaster. Bob the Unbeliever. Bob the despiser.

"Can we desecrate it? Yes, we can!!"

Well, then how about Joe Landwaster... Bill Rockworm... Fred the Despiser.

Okay, mebbe not.

Posted: **Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:09 pm**

Fred the Despiser is just awesome. How about if we tone down the whole thing?
"Listen Steve, our focus groups show that some people react a little..... well, negatively to the intensity of your names. Try this on for size: "Thomas the not-quite-convinced, but still open to discussion."

Posted: **Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:31 am**

There should be another choice on this survey...

"Some of them do, but I LOVE other ones."

Kevin's Watch

SRD's names-- do they bug you? (Plz see my confession pg 3)

SRD's names-- do they bug you? (Plz see my confession pg 3)

Re: SRD's names-- do they bug you?

Re: SRD's names-- do they bug you?