Kevin's Watch

There is no need to spoiler anything in this thread.

Have at it!

THEY GOT TO EARTH! HURRAY!


Sorry, just had to do it. I still haven't finished Season 1 yet. And more's the pity.

Cagliostro wrote:THEY GOT TO EARTH! HURRAY!


Sorry, just had to do it. I still haven't finished Season 1 yet. And more's the pity.

Unless you've gotten advanced copies of Season Four, they haven't, and it looks as if they won't.

And if you have gotten advanced copies of Season Four, torrents, please.

So, I'm wondering who are the strongest candidates for final Cylon. It was basically flat out SAID by the cylons on the Base star that all 5 were with the fleet, so it would seem that the last one HAS to be a main Character. Here are my picks for likeliest candidates...

-Tom Zarick - It would make sense that he wouldn't meet on Galactica with the other 4, and he is really the most major character who wasn't on Galactica at the time.

-Baltar (I'm still on the fence about him. Obviously, *something* supernatural is going on with him. It just beats the hell out of me as to
what it is.)

-That Lawyer guy - Forgot his name. Another major character who I don't think was on Galactica at the right time.

-Kat (Is she really gone for good? Would actually be a surprise to see her again.)

-Zak Adama? If Tigh can be a Cylon, why not? We don't have to limit our candidates to the living.

-Admiral Cain - Cmon! how cool would that be?

-Kendra Shaw - Perhaps the more likely candidate from the Peg. This, to me, would have a big emotional payoff if true, so it's a sexy possibility. It also conforms to my Human/Cylon Romance rule.

-Billy - This would be the most delicious surprise in my mind. His departure from the show never really sat well with me. (Why would he leave such an awesome show to do God knows what.) Unless they have been planning this for years... to bring him back as a Cylon. In the context of the last few episodes, his return would be extremely tantalizing. (It would sure as hell make Roslin eat her criticism of Bill.) Once again, I think what Lee said to Adama was prophetic. It's going to be someone we know and Love, and the Challenge will be to still love him. He is the character I would choose (if it were possible to get him back anyway) if I were writing the show. While it may be the best choice from a Narrative point of view, I'm not sure it's doable realistically. (He chose to leave the show after all.)

Characters I am almost certain are *not* the last cylon.

-Either Adama - My main arguments for this are Narrative. The heart of the show is really on Lee, Bill, and Laura. They are probably the most important leaders of Mankind. It would just invalidate too much for them to be a Cylon. (And what was it Bill and Laura said in season 1? "If either of us is a Cylon, Humanity is already screwed") Although, Lee's Speech about Zak coming back as a Cylon seemed maybe a little Prophetic.

-Laura (Mostly for the reasons above) - Honestly it's mostly my gut that tells me that it cant be any of the big 4 characters. I feel like they already have enough main character Cylons to deal with, and Tigh is already more than enough story to fill out a season. I have a hunch that making any of the big 4 a cylon would be stretching it a bit too thin.

-Starbuck - I am fairly sure that Katy Sakhoff and RDM have pretty explicitly stated that she is *not* a cylon. Of course, they could be pulling wool over our eyes, (they did take her out of the Credits after she *died* last season.) but my gut says no, just like my Gut told me she wasn't really dead.

-Ellen Tigh - There is a definite pattern among Cylon characters - they typically end up in love with humans. There doesn't seem to be any real stock in Cylon-Cylon relationships. (Even though Diana and Cap 6 seem pretty damn close, and Boomer-Tyrol had a serious romance... look where they ended up) I think Ellen and Tighs relationship (and Ellens death) just grants too much emotional material for Tighs character to (in my mind) ruin by making her a cylon. My gut says no.

-Helo - He is maybe the one character I think we can all say "no way!" about. WAY too much stock has been placed in the importance of their child for him to be a cylon.

-Caly - Same as above basically. She and the chief are far more interesting as Human and Cylon than as Cylon and Cylon.

-Dee - My reasoning is simple, why didn't she end up in that room with Tigh, Anders, Tyrol, and Tory? In my mind, today's episode ruled out any character who could have answered that summon. (Therefor most of the people on Galactica.) I think it is going to *have* to be a dead character or someone from off the ship. My gut says dead character

Edit: I just saw a monster idea... Joseph Adama (Bill's father) as a Cylon. Holy shit... that would be a culmination of everything I have said in this post. That would be perfect! Probably the most doable too. If it can't be Billy, I would choose this. After all, isn't he going to be the subject of the upcoming Caprica Mini-Series? Along with Lee trying to follow in his footsteps, raising the possibility of a member their family being a cylon... This is tantalizing.

Good post, TD.

1) Zarick - you know, I've never thought about this, but it could be, and it would be cool since Hatch was the original Apollo.

2) Baltar - as much as I love to hate the guy, I just don't see him being a Cylon, but I can't explain the supernatural stuff about him.

3) Baltar's lawyer - I've thought about this, and I think it would be cool if he were a Cylon, but I don't think he's a large enough character. I think they're playing up the last Cylon with so much suspense that it will have to be somebody really good.

4) Kat - nah, that wouldn't be very interesting either.

5) Zak - this is Fist's favorite choice, and it fits with what Leoben said in the first season to Roslin ("Adama is a Cylon.") It also fits with the drama and suspense that's building.

6) Cain - doubtful, but remember your comments about Cylon-Cylon relationships? Cain got it on with a Six.

7) Shaw - maybe, but I think she's too much of a minor character.

8 ) Billy - my favorite choice for the final Cylon. Roslin would freak out!

I agree with your reasoning for why the other people you mentioned are not Cylons. I can't see Joseph Adama being one though - that would mean the Cylons had human appearances long before the first Cylon War. (Of course, that's a huge problem with Tigh being a Cylon, unless it's further explained that he was the first model - but, isn't Cavill a One?)

I sort of had my money on Roslin, but you guys bring up some really good points. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of either Billy or Zarick, (espically now since it seems like Lee is going to be spending more time with Zarick.)

I'm not sure about Zak Adama. I mean, it would certainly have a great impact, but how would that happen? We don't know any of the other cylon's family members, but obviously we do with Zak. So he would have to have replaced in the distant past, if he had been a cylon for his adult life. If he had just been replaced now, after his death.... not sure it would be believable to the other characters.


Oh, I gotta say, I love the writing on this show. Last episdoe's Baltar and Baltar conversation was priceless!

Bear with me, because I missed 5 or 6 episodes in the middle of season 3, so I may be lacking important information.

This has all happened before, and it will all happen again.

Say what? By "all" do they mean everything? Has the Earth been found several times before? This is important.

I seem to remember hearing that the Cylons weren't copies of actual people, but unique designs. The veracity of this is very important.

Saul. Oh Saul. You're a fracking toaster. Which implies that you've been one for at least 50 years (since prior to the last Cylon war). That's a problem, because Cylons didn't look human during the last war, and they'd have been foolish not to use human-looking-Cylons as infiltrators (which they're doing now). But Saul as a Cylon is brilliant....He's offed his wife, combated alcoholism, and lost an eye in a POW camp. Tell me he doesn't have credibility with the fleet.

But to the question....Who's the last? They're all Cylons. Every last one of them. If everything we're seeing now has already happened, then how could fewer humans than would fill a sports stadium have defeated a technologically superior race that is resurrected whenever they die?

No, humans have been long dead. What we're witnessing is a holy war between the monotheistic Cylons and the polytheistic Cylons who yearn for humanity.

Earth is either going to be the last bastion of actual humans, or it'll be the place where it's revealed that humanity has been dead for millennia.

Heh, cool theory.

Hrmm, interesting. I always saw "All this will happen before..." as basically their culture's way of saying "As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be." (There is something like that in every culture). So Say We All is basically what Amen means. (Something like "We are all in accord") However it has been too pervasive a theme not to have some implication in how the show ends. I still think there is going to be 1 more "cylon" but Cail may not be far off in guessing how the show ends.

Well, this past week's episode seems to give my theory some credence. Human Cylons oppressing the raiders and centurions....Hmmmmmm.

Yeah, the daughter and I have been discussing your theory, and it seems damned plausible. The cylon rebellion was one I didn't see coming - I love this show!

The Cylon rebellion was the most interesting part of last week's episode. The Cylons make this show as good as it is. I bet the Centurions will rebel along with the Raiders and the human Cylons will have to ally themselves with Adama and Roslin to regain control.

What we're seeing is the beginning of the next cycle...The Cylons have built machines to aid and benefit them. They're becoming self-aware. The Cylons have become the humans, and the raiders/centurions are the new Cylons. In a few hundred years, they'll "evolve" and look human, and the whole cycle will begin again.

All I can say is, the show is just brilliant. I love it!!!!!

Cail wrote:What we're seeing is the beginning of the next cycle...The Cylons have built machines to aid and benefit them. They're becoming self-aware. The Cylons have become the humans, and the raiders/centurions are the new Cylons. In a few hundred years, they'll "evolve" and look human, and the whole cycle will begin again.

When I watched the last episode of season one that idea came to me as well.

So you're saying John McCain is the final Cylon?

That would explain a lot.....

Yeah, the resemblance was always pretty clear to me. It almost got a grin from me when Saul was being tortured.

Cail wrote:What we're seeing is the beginning of the next cycle...The Cylons have built machines to aid and benefit them. They're becoming self-aware. The Cylons have become the humans, and the raiders/centurions are the new Cylons. In a few hundred years, they'll "evolve" and look human, and the whole cycle will begin again.

I'm thinking that too.
I don't like it.

Cail wrote:This has all happened before, and it will all happen again.

Say what? By "all" do they mean everything? Has the Earth been found several times before? This is important.

Very important IMO. RDM was asked about the old earth weapons in Admiral Cains quarters (old 1930's tommy guns etc) they asked if they were placed there as just "random weapons" to make it look like Cain was into this stuff (and lack of budget to make a bunch of non earth looking weapons) or if they were actually meant to be old earth weapons/replicas of old eath weapons....he said the later....as far as I am concerned BSG is in the far(ish) future.

Earth has been left and returned to several times in the Galactica universe (IMO).

The rest of your post has real merrit as well IMO, I like what you are saying, it's a good theory.


Oh, and those centurions gunning down those skin jobs in episode 02 had me punching the air with delight!

Also, we need to listen real close to what those "hybrids" say as well.