Kevin's Watch

So after I was convinced to go see the new Rambo film (and loved it), it occurred to me that I hadn't ever seen Rambo III, hadn't seen Rambo: First Blood Pt. II in it's entirety, and it was well over 20 years since I'd seen First Blood.

So I'm on a quest. The new film comes out on DVD May 27th, so I want to familiarize myself with the older films. I remembered thinking that First Blood was a decent movie, but both Sly and Rambo became whipping boys shortly thereafter, so I've pretty much discounted the character.

So......First Blood. The film's got a weak link, and it ain't Sly. Richard Crenna's performance is painful. Otherwise, this is a spectacularly good movie (as long as you accept the idea that the whole movie's about a disagreement over where Rambo can eat, escalating as it does). What's amazing is Sly's performance, especially his breakdown at the end. I really can't say enough about Sly. He acts his ass off in this movie. The supporting cast (with the exception of Crenna) is strong too, especially Brian Dennehy.

It looks great too. It's hard to believe that the director is the same guy who did Weekend at Bernie's, but there you have it. The scenery is gorgeous, the action scenes are great, and the whole film is well-paced. There isn't a flat spot in it.

I do like the alternate ending better than the theatrical one, but then there would be no.....

Rambo: First Blood Pt. II. What an awful title, eh? Came out my junior year of high school, and I had no interest in seeing it. In fact, other than bits and pieces I'd seen on TV, I hadn't watched the entire film until last night, and sat through half of it going, "oh, so that's where Hot Shots Part Deux got that from.

R:FBpII is a silly movie, and pales in comparison to it's predecessor. But as an action film it acquits itself very well. The racial stereotypes are quaint, and chest-beating patriotism is there in full-force. I did have to fight to keep from laughing at the helicopter scene at the end (thank you Weird Al and the cast of UHF), but overall it's a pretty good movie.

Stallone (again) plays Rambo with a sincerity that is utterly lacking in his other films of the era (Tango & Cash, anyone?). No, it's not the character study that the first film is, but it's still a great performance.

George Cosmatos does a fine job directing the film and keeping it on a serious point (unlike his next film, Cobra). Again, this film is beautifully shot, and paced extraordinarily well. Eight years later, he went on to direct the greatest film ever made, Tombstone.

I'm waiting on Amazon for Rambo III. We'll see if it deserves the reputation it has.

First Blood is a fantastic movie from start to finish. I can do without II and III. I haven't seen the latest movie yet.

Ok you almost had me until you mentioned the Kurt Russel ego trip. It shocked me that you consider this the greatest film ever made. Your comment has taken me completely off topic, Tombstone ... the greatest movie ever made? I think Im going to have to go out in the back yard,and set myself on fire!

I haven't seen III. Been many years since II, but I remember it being a lot of fun. Been many years since I also, but I remember it being a great movie.

I basically agree with what Cail had to say on the films. First Blood is the masterpiece of the series - the only one which is truly about something. The latest film is an amazing action film (dialogue is a bit like the stuff you used to say when you "played soldiers", but the tension and dynamism of the direction makes up for the so-so script). First Blood Part II (and, yes, that really is a stupid title) is a fun film; Part III is a piece of shit.

Funnily enough, I never noticed Crenna's terrible performance...it makes me want to watch it again just to have a look if it really is that bad.

Cail wrote:So......First Blood. The film's got a weak link, and it ain't Sly. Richard Crenna's performance is painful. Otherwise, this is a spectacularly good movie (as long as you accept the idea that the whole movie's about a disagreement over where Rambo can eat, escalating as it does). What's amazing is Sly's performance, especially his breakdown at the end. I really can't say enough about Sly. He acts his ass off in this movie. The supporting cast (with the exception of Crenna) is strong too, especially Brian Dennehy.

Sounds like the only Rambo I'd take seriously. I love a film where a character goes completely batty/has a major transformation (but not a Transformers transformation).

I'm not sure if it's that Crenna acted badly or just is a bad actor. He was never known for having serious chops.

Uh, I read the book...

(Which was pretty good. David Morrell...wrote quite a few great books. If you haven't read them Cail, I particularly think you'd like The Fifth Profession, and the loosley connected series comprising of The Brotherhood of the Rose, The Fraternity of the Stone and The League of Night and Fog..

Haha, while I'm at it, I recommend The Covenant of the Flame to Prebe, in case he sees this thread.

All by the author of Rambo...and as Cail mentioned, the book is very much more a character story than a war story. A great action writer.

Never seen much more than bits and pieces of any of the movies though, but it does spring to mind as the "defining" Stallone flick...when I think Stallone, I think Rambo first.

--A

First Blood is an excellent film, some great lines, awesome action and a really sympathetic (and slightly f**ked up) character...and I agree with Avatar when he says that "First Blood" is the defining Sly movie.

Cail is also spot on when he talks about Sly's performance and especially his breakdown at the end as well.

I really need to see the new "John Rambo" flick, I've heard it is a lot closer to "First Blood" than the other two "Rambo" flicks

Carson Napier wrote:
I really need to see the new "John Rambo" flick, I've heard it is a lot closer to "First Blood" than the other two "Rambo" flicks

I wouldn't say a lot closer. The basic setup is far more like 2 and 3 (Rambo is sent in to rescue Americans from evil Asiatics/wicked military types). However, it has much more meat on its bones than 2 and 3, though goes nowhere near the depth of First Blood. 4 is an excellent film, though.

Good summary.

OK, I finally got some free time an sat down with my popcorn and Sno-Caps to watch Rambo III.

It's not a piece of shit, but it's certainly well below the standard set by the first two films....On every level. It's a technical mess; the editing is especially horrendous, the sound is bad, and the action sequences are limp. One look at the director's resume speaks volumes about his skill.

Now granted, given 20 years of hindsight, the film is damn ironic, but that doesn't make up for the otherwise weak outing. It's worth seeing, but just as a bridge to the far superior Rambo.

Well I picked up Rambo to watch on Friday night, and I absolutely loved it. It spoke to me. It said, "this is about people who are willing to kill and die, for those who are unwilling to." Wow, just wow.

The CGI gore was perhaps just a bit over the top though.

Top notch.

stutt

I disagree. The gore had to be there. It is the most unflinching look at the horror of war I've seen. The movie would lose its impact without it.

Cail wrote:I disagree. The gore had to be there. It is the most unflinching look at the horror of war I've seen. The movie would lose its impact without it.

I absolutely agree. We're talking about something happening right now on the other side of the planet (from where I'm typing, at least). The reality is much worse than what we saw on screen. In order to give that reality the respect and gravity it deserves, we can't simply pan the camera away from the violence, or tone it down so we don't feel quite so uncomfortable. That's part of the problem: people have been ignoring what's happening in Burma for far too long. Stallone's movie has increased awareness of the genocide 100 fold. (No joke, news stories have increased dramatically since the movie).

And if the graphic nature of the travesty is shown honestly, then the payoff at the end must be even more bloody, for the simple logic of storytelling alone. If you're going to have a "good guys win" story, you've got to let them win in a way that seems meaningful compared to all the bad stuff that happened before. That's the only thing that balances out the horror. And if you think about it, that's kind of the point of the movie: sometimes you've got to kill to stop the killing. It's a horrific truth, but it's made more horrific by denial and inaction.

As I've said elsewhere, I think the most brutal killing in the movie is the Christian guy who kills with a rock to the head (the guy who chastised Rambo for saving their lives by killing pirates). He's horrified at his own actions, but driven by the same animal need to survive that we all possess, deep down in the forgotten places of our comfortable lives. Sitting in the theaters, we're all most like this guy--especially those of us who would like the violence in the movie to have been toned down. Though we don't like to think about it, sometimes, we've got to kill. Even when you're horrified by this unattractive truth. That single killing provided a context for all the CGI killing going on around him. The attention to this single detail showed that Stallone wasn't going for a gorefest, a shock-and-awe of CGI blood. He was going for a character impact, a visceral explosion of human truth, whether that truth is in how human flesh reacts to a .50 caliber machine gun (the same one wielded against peasants earlier in the movie, then against the bad guys at the end--nice parallel scenes there), or how each and every one of us has the potential, sometimes even the need, for violence. It is our denial of this truth, our looking away from it, that allows this kind of genocide in the first place.

You'd mentioned the rock killing before Mal, and I really paid attention to it this last time I watched it. You're absolutely right, that killing is the film's hook.

Malik23 wrote:As I've said elsewhere, I think the most brutal killing in the movie is the Christian guy who kills with a rock to the head (the guy who chastised Rambo for saving their lives by killing pirates).

My favorite part of the film. And he did more than chastise Rambo. He flat-out said "It's never right to kill someone."

Oh, and Malik and Cail, I did caveat my statement about the gore with "perhaps." I did not rail on Stalone for making it messier than it should be. My problem (perhaps) was that there was so much ick that a couple of times it almost seemed laughable. Like when in the Simpsons a milk truck runs off the road and explodes.

But we all agree I think. Good stuff.

stutt

The very first Rambo movie.. First Blood is absolutely one of my favorite movies of all time. The rest, to me, dont have nearly the impact. At the end when he is reliving a part of his past during the war where his friend gets blown up... OMG..... And then he's saying something like "I cant get it out of my head"

And Tombstone, although it also was a very good movie (one of my favorites westerns), doesnt really compare.

I got the Rambo box set for Father's Day, and just worked up the courage to see Rambo III. I enjoyed the others so much, I didn't want this one to spoil them. Well, we laughed our asses off at the end, doing our own MST 3000 treatment to the ridiculous action scenes. The game of "chicken" with the tank and helicopter was the dumbest thing ever put on film. Holy Crap!

But what surprised me was how good the movie was up until the sheep-ball game. I also liked all the parallels with the 4th movie. Watching the 4th one by itself, without having seen the others for over a decade, I was impressed. But now that I've seen all 4, and how they tie together, and how they mirror each other, it makes the last one even better. The new Rambo movie really did a good job of taking the iconic, most important moments of the previous films and reprising them both in terms of imagery and theme. And of course there is the "coming full circle" speech from the 3rd that finally has its payoff in the 4th.

I love these movies.

I agree...Taken in total, these four films are really excellent.