Kevin's Watch

Alright, so one of the first tip-off things for me that Covenant wasn't Covenant (though he was) was how he wanted to take the ring and go take care of everything with it. That attitude was so incredibly not TC that it was an immediate tip off for me.

Moreover, I haven't followed everything as much as I should be (cuz the TCTC discussions here rock) but I think there's enough from the end of WGW and the GI to possibly distrust the absolute goodness of the timewarden hisself.

That being said, if/when TC asks for the ring, do you think Linden can be trusting enough to hand it over?

The most reassuring thing would, of course, be if he isn't interested in taking the ring. Well, reassuring for members of the LA army, I'm sure THOOLAH wants her rid of it ASAP. "YES, LINDEN, JUST GIVE IT TO ROGER, HE WILL DO LESS HARM THAN YOU WILL!"

I doubt that Linden will give the ring back to Covenant. She knows that he has an inherent distrust and also fear of power, but she doesn't share that. She wants MORE power, not less. How can she get Jeremiah back without power? Also, Linden has the health-sense and it's doubtful that Covenant will (unless she uses the Staff to give it to him.)

I'm expecting the unexpected.
Like.....TC doesn't even need the Ring anymore.
He can wield WM without it now.
But there will be some twist like with the Venom, he can't use it or he needs to use it all to maintain the Arch or something.

But, do we even know what the hell is going on yet by the end of Book II?
What is the problem/solution in the 3rd Chron?

First Chronicles: Foul/Illearth Stone: Laughter/Wild Magic (just using it)
Second Chronicles: Foul/Sunbane: Wild Magic (not using it)/Earthpower
Third: ?????


I still don't get how Foul was defeated in the 1st Chronicles.
The reasoning seems weak.

I've been thinking that TC wouldn't need the ring, but I didn't know how to frame the statement. After all, hasn't he progressed to the point of being an embodiment of the Wild magic?

As far as problems / solutions go, Foul has always been an archetype of Despite. The ending of the first Chrons seemed to be suggesting that violent opposition isn't the answer, and I agree.

There are so many possibilities with this issue, I can't seem to focus on one long enough to go farther with the idea. But my thinking is generally like HLTolkien's there, expecting the unexpected. Like the Arch is in much more serious danger now that TC is made flesh again, and that his wielding wild magic in any way, with or without the ring, would only cause to further harm that which he is now inherently a part...

I think that Linden will wield the Wild Magic.... but now, instead of it's source being Linden, it's source will be Thomas Covenant...

...how frustrating would that be? TC can see eternity in an instant, but he can't do ANYTHING unless Linden chooses to do it....

I think Covenant's vow/prophesy still stands - he'll never use power again. So he won't take the ring, even if Linden offers it. Also, he gave it to Linden -- that loses all significance if he takes it back, the way he ended his life loses significance.

I don't think the Time Warden weilds any power. I think he just spots problems and appoints Elohim or Insequent to address it. Both the Insequent and the Elohim make a big deal of not doing anything when there is someone else who will do it. The Time Warden probably makes sure that someone does.

It is Linden who has to fight the Worm, or so we are led to believe by the prophecy made by Lord Foul to Linden at the beginning of Runes.

So I have three reasons why Linden has to keep the Ring, but i'll say only one of them for now; she has to learn how to use it; to fight the worm.



What is interesting also is that the Krill is still active... it was inactive after the second chronicles.... and the power Linden channelled through it didn't destroy or diminish it in any sense... so what will become of that?

I think Linden summoned Covenant with the intention of giving him his ring.

Linden is capable of giving Covenant his ring. Roger said he wasn't as insistent in asking for the ring as the croyel would have liked, since he claimed to know Linden well enough to know that she wouldn't do that. In that scene, Linden inner thoughts reveal that Roger is mistaken. Even in the beginning, Linden very nearly gave the ring away, but chose instead to trust her instincts ("trust yourself") that things were very wrong, and thus disaster was averted.

I think she will try and give it to him but he certainly won't accept, but I do like the idea of him being the channel to use the power.

The question here this is what if TC asks for it... and maybe he will at the end, and that is ultimately what Foul wants... we've had enough hints that LA can't do squat on her own, let alone bring down the arch, however TC is the one who can do it.

So I think in the end you are right, TC will ask for it, but when we get there she won't do it in the end.