Page 1 of 1

Aluminum Foil

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:45 pm
by High Lord Tolkien
www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen01/gen01407.htm
"What side of the aluminum foil should be on the outside when I wrap something up in it to keep warm or cold? The shiny side or the dull?"
I've always wondered this so I did a little checking.
I found the answer and wanted to share:

Ask A Scientist
General Science Archive

Shiny and Dull Aluminum Foil
6/25/2003

name Connie S.
status other
age 50s

Question - Hello. I have a question that I am sure you will have the answer to. What side
of the aluminum foil should be on the outside when I wrap something up in it to keep warm or
cold? The shiny side or the dull?
I was at a grill out last week and was told that the shiny side should be on the inside and
the dull side of the aluminum foil should be on the outside.
----------------------
Connie,

The shiny side is slightly better reflector of heat. Face that side of the foil in the
appropriate direction. To keep things cold, put the shiny side on the outside -- that
will reflect incoming heat. To keep things warm, face the shiny side inward toward the
hot food -- to reflect the heat that is trying to escape back into the food.

Note that people often bake potatoes with the shiny side out -- that is because it makes
for a better (prettier) presentation. In reality, baking them that way reflects the
incoming heat on the outside, slightly slowing the cooking process.

Of course, in reality, which side of the foil faces where makes little difference. It does
make for lively conversation, though.

Regards,
ProfHoff 686
=====================================================
There is no difference in which side you use. The difference in the surface of aluminum
foil is a result of the manufacturing process and has no bearing on heat retention or
reflection.

Chris Murphy
=====================================================
As a practical matter, it probably does not matter because convection is overwhelming
any difference in reflectance of shiny vs. dull side of the foil. The science is that
you are balancing the E = K* T^4 law, where T is the absolute temperature in kelvins,
K is a constant, and E is the energy transferred. The value of 'K' depends upon the
details of the reflectance of the surface. But the target "hamburger-in-foil-on-the-grill"
is, in practice, very complicated. The charcoal is radiating heat to the burger from below
(which is highly variable depending upon the surface temperature of the coals. On top the
burger-foil is losing heat energy to the surroundings, but it is virtually impossible to
assign an "average" temperature to the surroundings. To make matters worse, the aluminum
foil is "crinkled" so that the reflecting surface is not uniform, and on the "dull" side
the reflectance is not even specular, i.e. there is a range of angles of reflection for a
specified angle of incidence, and that "range" depends upon the angle of reflectance.


Now what DOES make a difference with respect to aluminum foil in general, either on the
grill or in the oven is this. DO NOT let the aluminum foil contact an acidic ingredient,
like tomato sauce, catsup.. At oven (or grill) temperature the acidic ingredient will
dissolve the aluminum foil. Although Al(+3) is not especially toxic, contact with acidic
foods at high temperature should be avoided.

Vince Calder
=====================================================
Connie,

Short answer: I believe that the dull side should be out.

Long answer:

That would be my answer too. The only real scientific basis that I can think of for this
answer is: Radiative heating / cooling. I have done no experiments to prove one way or
the other though. The goal is to maximize heat transfer. Heat transfer can happen by
CONDUCTIVE, CONVECTIVE, and RADIATIVE means.

Conductive heating will happen by the hot grill in direct contact with the foil. This
mode is limited by the thermal conductivity of the foil.

Convective heating will happen by the hot air movement around the foil and transferring
its heat to the surface. Then it will also be limited by the a heat transfer coefficient
based on how fast the air is moving and of course the temperature difference between the
foil and the hot air.

Radiative heating will happen by the absorption of infrared radiation (IR radiation) or
heat emanating from all around the food (within the BBQ). Now please consider infrared
radiation to be in the wavelength range of 880 nanometers or so. Realize that this
wavelength of "light" is very near the color red in the visible portion of the spectrum.
Further, this means that the radiation will act like light and the foil shall act as a
mirror. Knowing now that you want to transmit (foil to absorb all radiation) as much IR
through the foil as possible. It should be clear to you that the dull side should be
OUTWARD facing so as not to minimize the reflection of IR radiation.

Hope this helps,
Darin Wagner

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:21 pm
by Menolly
All I'll say is...

Use 1/2 cup white vinegar in the rinse cycle of your laundry in place of fabric softener, and if you use a dryer, toss in a crumpled sheet of aluminum foil to reduce static cling instead of dryer sheets. So far it works for me.

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:39 pm
by Avatar
All I'll say is aluminium foil.

--A

Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:03 pm
by High Lord Tolkien
Avatar wrote:All I'll say is aluminium foil.

--A
Isn't that the stuff they make hats with?

:D

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:15 pm
by Avatar
Proven ineffective I'm afraid. :D

--A

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:38 pm
by stonemaybe
Aluminium foil and a pin and just about any receptacle, to make a pipe. When making such a pipe, always have the shinier side facing whatever will be burning.

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:08 am
by Wyldewode
I used to love to watch Junkyard Wars, and especially loved it when the female host said "al--loo--mini--yum." It made me smile every time.

That is all. :P

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:07 pm
by stonemaybe
Wyldewode wrote:I used to love to watch Junkyard Wars, and especially loved it when the female host said "al--loo--mini--yum." It made me smile every time.

That is all. :P
um, how do you say it then?

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:11 pm
by Menolly
Stone, dictionary.com has an audio file of the American pronunciation. Click on the spound icon, and you'll hear it pronounced.

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:31 pm
by stonemaybe
Menolly wrote:Stone, dictionary.com has an audio file of the American pronunciation. Click on the spound icon, and you'll hear it pronounced.
oh yeah - I forgot you americans leave out the second 'i'. Wyldewode's al-loo-mini-yum is exactly how we say it!

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:05 pm
by Menolly
Hence Av's "correction" of the spelling earlier in the thread. ;)

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:24 pm
by Avatar
'Zacktly. ;) :lol:

--A

Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:52 pm
by Menolly
:biggrin:

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:42 am
by Menolly
Oh my g-ds, Stone. How long has this been in your signature?
Stonemaybe wrote:Repeat after me: 'al loo mini yum'
Image

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:17 am
by stonemaybe
since the above conversation!

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:17 pm
by Wyldewode
You're going to make me smile every time I see that. :P