Kevin's Watch

Not to mention the world around it...

Aside from all the issues that face our heroes, each one threatening the existence of the world or Time or both, there seems to be some foreshadowing with the use of 'worm' monsters which I would like to call the Conquerer Worm theme.

Obviously we have the Worm at World's End, but I'd like to focus on Skurj. Here we have worms eating away at the earth like worms supposedly eat away at corpses, and the structure and Laws of the Land are failing (like failing organs). Sure, we have a 'doctor' in the house, but some things are beyond curing, and I believe the Land's current plight is one of them, it is just not strong enough to endure its maladies.

Foul knows this, is probably holding back his minions from destroying everything before he can escape from Time, since this maybe his last chance to do so. It seems as if the only way to ensure that Foul doesn't escape is to let the Land die, thus Foul would be trapped forever in The Last Dark (coming fall of 2013!).

Well, (I know this has been said before somewhere, but...) sacrifice would certainly be a logical conclusion to the succession of answers to despite: first one was open confrontation and defeat, second one was open surrender and defeat, third one may have to be willing sacrifice which might be the only way to achieve a lasting defeat.

I like your analogy of the worms eating away a corpse, the organs breaking down and ceasing to function, with the doctor in the house who can't cure every ill that is afflicting the body...it reminds of something Linden said in the Second Chrons: (i'm paraphrasing) "some illnesses just have to be cut out."

But at this point, which one(s)? Kasty and skurj? Roger? Joan and her unstable caesures? Longwrath? Ravers? sandgorgons? Kevin's Dirt?

Although it breaks my heart to say so...Yes.

Basically, where else could the Land go?

If TC/LA fix EVERYTHING...get rid of Foul once and for all, kill Kassy, sick the Insequent on the Elohim, and sing a luliby to the worm...then what?

Would the Land and the Earth just live in peacefull harmony for ever and ever?

The thing about the Land and the Lands earth..is that, stuff was always happeneing.

If it wasn't an Elohim screwing a mortal; it was the Bratharians battelling the Sandgorgans..or the settlers in the Land cutting down all the trees, or the Ravers turning the Demondim bad.

And granted, yes! it WAS Foul standing in the middle of all of that; but there's too much set in motion for his de-creation to stop anything.

Now...I doubt if it will be a bad ending.
I doubt that the world will end in a big flash of white gold...the thing is though...I don't think any of us could even guess where the end will take us.

How do you save and damn the land at the same time?
Who knows?

SRD knows.

Its happened before.
TC saved the Land from its plight facing Foul with his Illearth Stone...but damned them, by paving the way for the Sunbane.

Morham saved the land, by tossing away Kevin's Lore, and working on his own peacefull lore...but that allowed aRaver to access the Council and corrupt it.
TC once again, sacrificed himself, to stop Foul from breaking the Arch..but damned himself into being powerless to do anything else...

Now Joan (bearing the paradoxial white gold) is damning the Land by creating the ceasures...but by doing so, has helped Linden Recover the SOL and to get the appropriate Runes carved into it.

And Linden (also bearing the Paradoxial White Gold) has managed to get TC out of the AOT, so that he can help her again..but to what cost...I guess we'll have to find out.


Perhaps by the End Covenant will know how to save and damn the land together again, this time for the good...and do it.

I too believe this is the end for The Land and it's world, considering all the talk of the Worm of the World's End and all the horrible things happening in the Last Chronicles. Even things that SRD has hinted at in some of the interviews over the last few years pretty much hints at it. Not to mention the fourth book title "The Last Dark."

I'll hate to see The Land die. But maybe the Ultimate End of The Land will also be a Brand New Beginning?

Perhaps the only way to "fix" The Land and it's associated world is to remove Earthpower and all other things magical from it. Wouldn't it be a hoot if the ending is not the destruction of The Land, but a "normalization" of The Land. I could see it ending this way, and that would be just as sad as The Lands destruction.

" The Last Dark"..be careful with the assumption you make . Have we not been introduced to a Darkness who" devoted their vast power and knowledge to the making of beauty and wonder"..?

That's almost be worse. It'd be like the Land under Kevin's Dirt, which doesn't seem to actually harm anything, just block the awareness of the transcendence of the Land.

Or more like the Land losing its transcendent qualities altogether.

Yep, much worse...

As I've said before, I'm almost afraid of the last two books...

FYI, according to the Andrew Adams interview, (under October 1991 I believe on the SRD website),

Do you see The First Chronicles as being the external battle and The Second Chronicles as being the internal battle, with The Land being both internal and external?

I see The Land as being the reflection of an internal struggle. I think that's what Fantasy is: turning an internal struggle inside out, and dramatizing it as if it were external. The two stories together are a kind of moral hierarchy: the first one is relatively simple concerned with muscle; the second is a test of sacrifice in relationships - Covenant can't save The Land alone in The Second Chronicles , and neither can Linden Avery. It takes what they can both give, and what they can both give up, to save The Land. I believe there is another test that which if I ever get to it I will try to explore: I guess superficially you might call it the test of acceptance, but it's a sequence: you can't get to the second stage unless you have done the first. That's how I look at it.

Based on this, the Final Cs are about acceptance. Sacrifice (or, at least "sacrifice in relationships") was the theme of the Second Cs.

Acceptance can include "letting it all go". And so, the end of the Land. That's my take.

Then there is the now infamous quote attributed to SRD in W.A. Senior's book Fantasy Traditions, Stephen R. Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.

PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM SPOILERING THIS STUFF BECAUSE TOO MANY PEOPLE HAVE CRIED THAT THEY DID NOT WANT TO KNOW THIS. YOU ARE WARNED!

Spoiler

Ok. In a hundred words or less. In the First Chronicles, Thomas Covenant faces Lord Foul and defeats him. In the Second Chronicles, Thomas Covenant surrenders to Lord Foul. In the Last Chronicles, Thomas Covenant becomes Lord Foul. Following the psychological paradigm through, what happens at the point that you become your own other self is that you become whole, and the universe is made new.

Finally, there is this another infamous interview quote from SRD, from a 1997 interview:

Spoiler

Question: In a 1991 interview, you mention that the first Covenant Chronicles reflected a test of muscle and the second a test of sacrifice. You also said that if you ever chose to pursue the idea, the next test would be one of acceptance. Could you elaborate on this?

SRD: I remember saying that. At the same time I got the ideas for the second series. I realized it was not done, and I got a grand vision and it needs a third part. And I call it the Last Chronicles of Covenant and there would be no later sequels since the world would end. I have not made the commitment to write it, but I see the fundamental job of a writer is to write ideas that stick in my head. If I can forget it, it does not need to get made. But I cannot forget this one.

Well the dream resolves and he wakes up. The land ends...

But...everything can end with out it being a dissapointment.

drew wrote:But...everything can end with out it being a dissapointment.

As I said before... "how can we imagine that Covenant’s story will end other than triumphantly?"

- - - - - - - - - -

I found that quote about which I said above: Finally, there is this another infamous interview quote from SRD, which I am darned if I can find. But I am 100% positive that in the interview SRD said ...

I edited my post above to include the actual quote.

SO far, everything that's ahppened in the Thrid Chonicles has been a surprise (other than the Giants showing up)...so I'll bet however it ends will nothing less than incredible...and in the end, we (as readers) will not be sad that there will be no more Land, or Chonicles...we will be exited about how good it ended.


It's like, when the First Chons ended, it wasn't dissapointing..same as the second chrons...no doubt same as the third.

Yes, I'm interested to see how the ending not only will make it so there can be no further "chronicles" but be as incredible as the endings to the previous chronicles!

As much as I appreciate him, I do not envy SRD right now (if I were him, I wouldn't have a pair of clean pants ).

Since the Law of Death is broken they all end up dead and then say, "OK we're dead." The End

Relayer wrote:That's almost be worse. It'd be like the Land under Kevin's Dirt, which doesn't seem to actually harm anything, just block the awareness of the transcendence of the Land.

...that sounds like our world.

Well because of Linden's thoughts at the end of the 2nd Chron. (something like this anyway)< if the land should be destroyed let (Linden) be the one who ravages, her who rains devistation on the earth> with that idea in mind i think even if foul wins in the end at least one wild magic wielder would give battle in the heavens to see vengence laid at his feet!

Lord Foul will win in the end of the third Chronicles...

I'm just saying...

Sill wrote:Lord Foul will win in the end of the third Chronicles...

I'm just saying...

I doubt it.

If by 'win' you mean, he'll get a free pass to destroy the Land, destroy the AOT and free himself to do whatever it is he wants to do to the Creator.