Kevin's Watch

Even if one is strict in usage of the word "hero", the Chronicles are still filled to the brim with them. Let me see here:

Foamfollower, from the moment he's first introduced in LFB, begins to undertake one giant task after another. Not to mention the summons in PTP and his ultimate sacrifice at the end.

Bannor certainly exemplifies many aspects of a hero, as do all of the bloodguard/haurachi in the series. From their strict devotion to the Vow, to the cunning and balance, they certainly qualify.

Mhoram, nothing need be said about this one.

Aside from those "big three", many lesser charecters either swallow their pride (Atrian/Tricok) or give their very lives (Lena/Hollian/Verement) for the betterment of the quest.

absolutely .. what he said ..

I don't think they really understand the concept of an antihero over there! Vain is my hero! Horinscrave, Mhoram, Ceer, SHFF, Bannor, Nom, Koric, Seadreamer..the hero list really goes on and on!

The fact that the Land is entirely populated by people who see acts of heroism as their duty always seems one of the main points about the Land, and one of the reasons TWL is distressing - these people have gone...

TC is the only one who isn't a hero

His perserverance is heroic--and he does have a heart somewhere deep down in there...At least he's not as cold and ruthless as Moorcock's Elrick. But other than that do u think he's just a self-absorbed bastard?

I think he's a troubled, confused, lost, disillusioned, embittered self-absorbed bastard! What I mean is, he is justified, to an extent, in being self-absorbed. But it wasn't until very late in the first chronicles that he showed any signs of heroism, in the sense of the greater good. I suppose in the sense of surviving in the face of abohrrance from the people who were once his friends etc, he could be considered heroic, byt it was a long time before he started putting others first. Even in the second chronicles, he was still a little self-absorbed - consider his rage at the Elohim's suggestion that Linden should have the ring (though of course, I felt the rage along with him )

TC is very self-absorbed but that is his leper training - his survival training! Like all of us, he enjoys the Land in the beginning (even though he fights it) but it takes him a book or two to truly fall in love with the Land.

...but God! the # of sacrifices and losses that pile up b4 he actually does anything! It can make u grind ur teeth the same way u really want Morn 2 shake off the drugs and kick Angus' ass! The same way in MN! U just want 2 kick Terisa in the head and say--come on, wake up, make something of urself!

This is a land that at its' core has a wealth of heros. Everybody is a hero in their own regard, at least in the first chrons. I think that what this particular 'critic' might have been implying is the fact that there is not one single person who is such an overwhelming hero that they stand out above and beyond anybody else. In the way that SRD has portrayed the land and its' people, it would take a super hero to do so. Each of the people listed so far in this thread are heroes in their own right. If for nothing else, for their service to the land and to TC. To surpass them, it would have taken somebody that can never be.

I can't be the only one who actually gets the point of the 2nd chronicles, I think that the people who live with the Sunbane are more heroic that those of the 1st Chronicles, it breaks my heart to see them make the sacrifices they do, they find a way to carry on living. Even Melma of the Clave was heroic.
It was easy to be heroic in the 1st Chrons, join the Wardward, become a Lord (if you had it in you) black and white, no moral dilema. Can you imagine the strength of character needed to kill members of your family so that the rest of the community could eat, Sunder was a real hero BEFORE he met TC and then he really began to shine.
In the 2nd chrons we find hero's all over the place (Nom, Alfi, Mistweave, the Waynhim, and ultimately TC and Linden)

Game, set and match 2 the Prince! VERY astute point sir! btw who is Alfi? I must b braindead this fine morn--need a 2nd cup o' coffee

Alfi or Benji (now I think about it) was the favoured of the Ghaddi when the quest for the one tree landed in the harbour (not even going to attempt the name of the people begining with a B) The other one beat her up when she fell out of favour (failing to seduce TC when he was catatonic) She helped the quest escape and then when back to her people to help them rebuild.

was it the Lady Alif? and the Lady Benj?

Yes O.K my memory isn't what it was, wish I had the Chronicles at work and I could look these things up, prevent embarrassing mistakes.

Wasn't Benji a Dog in a T.V show, and Alfi a character in a film from the 60's played by Michael Cane?

What the lady Alif did was not as much heroism as payback from my point of view. She helped the quest escape because she had been deposed and cast out. "Hell hath no fury"? As for going back to her people, what other choice did she have? Unless you consider heroism in the same category as survivalism.
That is the same with Sunder until he left the stonedown with TC and LA. He wasn't being a hero, he was just surviving. The people of the wounded land had forgotten what the lands law was, because it had been perverted over the course of millenia, and therefore considered just what they were doing as a natural way of life. Sometimes it was hard, but survival always is under adverse conditions. It would have more been heroism if Sunder and the others of the land had been thrust into those conditions suddenly, overnight. If they had had a rider come into their stonedown one day, been handed a piece of paper stating what the new rules of the land were, and then been forced to accept, or to die a most horrible death.

Oh, and by the way, I am not trying to step on you, Prince of Amber. Far be it from me to put anybody down for their opinion!! I apologize if perhaps I came on a little strong in that last post. I have the bad habit of getting on my soapbox from time to time.

The Lady Alif was offered the chance to join the Quest, I'm sure SD wanted to show her in a good light and make a mini hero out of her, but I take the point (I just liked the character)
I guess we could have a debate about the nature of heroism, its clear that we would disagree. Suicide being a cowards way out, the people of the Land could have rolled over and died, but they chose not to. I understand what you mean about them growing up with the Sunbane and seeing it as natural. When I read TWL I have the strong impression that Sunder hated having to slaughter members of his own family and I'm sure that SD used him as an indication of the character of the people of the Land at that time. I believe that only the strongest, bravest most heroic people would have survived under the Sunbane anyway, you could argue that the only true hero is a coward who changes his nature and becomes brave at the critical time.

No need to apologize

No, I don't believe that a hero is a coward that changes his stripes. Instead, what I believe is that a hero is a person who faces insurmountable odds at the risk of his own life in the pursuit of saving the lives of one or several other people.
I don't believe that the people of the land were all that heroic in the second chrons. simply because they had been raised with the sunbane. I agree that it took the strongest people to survive, but there was no bravery involved. Unless you are taking into account the raiding parties from other stonedowns and woodhelven that they had to defend against.