Kevin's Watch

Since he stowed away on the giant ship Starfares Gem he was so hateful of Vain. Did almost everything to get rid of the creature. "You I will not suffer!".
As an Elohim he must've known his purpose was to unite with Vain to create a new Staff Of Law. Did he fear this union? What was so bad about doing that. Was it that he didn't want to be the chosen sacrifice? It's something that I mulled over from time to time especially after he's found out in TOT.
I can understand him freaking out whenever Covenant used his ring but this Vain thing... I'm still kinda fuzzy about it.
What say ye Land lovers!

Hmm im not sure either, better leave this to the experts..

Findail didn't want to "die". And I think he was Appointed to do what he did, unless he could get Covenant to give up his ring (to either Linden, or to the Elohim).

Clinging to Vain's shoulder, the Appointed murmured like
a child, "I am Elohim. Kastenessen cursed me with death—
but I am not made for death. I must not die."

The Demondim-spawn's reply was so unexpected that
Linden recoiled a step. "You will not die." His voice was
mellifluous and clean, as perfect as his sculpted flesh—and
entirely devoid of compassion. He neither dismissed nor
acknowledged Findails fear. "It is not death. It is purpose.
We will redeem the Earth from corruption."

He was going to live inside a stick. I mean, what kinda life is that?

I don't see the Elohim as a very self-sacrificing race. Have always had a problem with that. Seems selfish that Findail didn't want to be made into a new Staff of Law.... Well, ok I wouldn't want to.
But to save the land ... ?

Post away!!

Findail feared death and a loss of freedom. Just as the Elohim was bound in the Colossus, Findail is bound within the new, living Staff of Law.

Oh yes!! Because as Elohim - shapeshifting earthpower incarnate...
Freedom is something they valued

Also, Findail's purpose was to try and presuade the Sun-Sage, Linden, to take or somehow get Covenant's ring. And if that wasn't possible, he was to try and get the ring for himself. If he could do neither of those, then the last resort was to merge with Vain. Hence.."you I will not suffer".

The Elohim have always been a mystery to me. For instance, why did they try to imprison Vain in Elemensedene? That seems odd to me, and i've never fully understood it, they had to know that he was essential if Findail failed to get the ring.

I can understand Findail's abhorance to his appointment. And his fear of Covenant. He didn't want to be forced to fulfill his ultimate destiny.

Phoebe, Welcome Back!

IMHO the Elohim are creatures of pure power and as such know unbounded freedom. What could possibly be worse for an entity that has known nothing but limitless expression than the thought of eternal confinement?

Exactly, Brinn.

As to Findail's other attitude problems - most of them relate to the Elohim collective fear of TC. He was a threat to their existence. He could've torched them at any time.

On a related note - anyone as surprised as I when Vain spoke for the first time?

I actually expected that. Vain speaking. And I knew it would be when his time came to become the Staff. What surprised me was Findail merging with him. Of course, now after all the re-reads I've done of the books. It should have been clear to me all along that was going to happen. But, I really didn't expect that one on my first read thru.

I don't think any of the Appointed were very happy about what they had to do. Kastenessen resisted and fled. Findail did everything he could to avoid his final duty. And the Elohim that ended up in the Colossus - I don't think she was appointed for that. I think she traveled to the Land to help the One Forest. She taught it how to defend itself and use its power. The One Forest used that knowledge to create the forestals. Then is used what it learned to take the Elohim and bind her into the Colossus. I don't think she came to the Land expecting to spend forever inside a hunk of rock.

I think an important thing to remember is the arrogance of the Elohim (sorry, infelice ). The idea that the demondim would even attempt to manipulate the elohim must have in some way felt the same as if a dog told you what kind of house you had to live in. And even if you know it might be the best decision, it'd probably make you resent Furface all the more. (Stupid Dog!)

LOL Syl!!

Sylvanus wrote:I think an important thing to remember is the arrogance of the Elohim (sorry, infelice ). The idea that the demondim would even attempt to manipulate the elohim must have in some way felt the same as if a dog told you what kind of house you had to live in...

Absolutely. When you've lived so long and have acquired so much power, I suppose arrogance becomes second nature. The Elohim were used to doing things on their terms. In their minds, only they knew what was best for the Land.

When it comes to the Elohim, I go back and forth. I love them because they have powers beyond anyone's comprehension, and can do whatever it is they do for the betterment of themselves and sometimes the Land. The idea of immortality and true Earthpower is so alluring.

I dislike them because they don't do more. The Land might be disintegrating before their eyes, yet they'll stand aside in this apathetic state, almost snubbing their noses at the lowly creatures in need of help.

"Therefore we met, and from among us Appointed one to give her life to that forest. This she did by merging among the trees until they gained the knowledge they required. Their knowledge they employed to bind her in stone, exercising her name and being to form an interdict against that hate. Thus was she lost to herself and to her people-but the interdict remained while the will of the forest remained to hold it."

"The Colossus," Covenant breathed. "The Colossus of the Fall."

"Yes," Findail said.

"And when people started coming to the Land, started cutting down the trees as if they were just so much timber and difficulty, the forest used what it'd learned to create the Forestals in self-defense."

It could be that she was planning to un-merge herself after the One Forest had what she considered the necessary knowledge. But likely not, since there wouldn't have been much need to Appoint an immortal to the temorary task of helping something that they all loved. I imagine she was planning to be a part of the One Forest forever, but it bound her into the Colossus.

Being slighty claustrophobic by nature I can understand Findail balking at his "Appointment". As Brinn said, I would find the idea of being confined within a limiting structure after enjoying limitless freedom, highly undesirable.

I'm with Tulizar when it comes to the Elohim. Their awesome power and beauty are things that attract me to them but their arrogance ( its ok Syl ) really saddens me.

Infelice:

I'm with Tulizar when it comes to the Elohim. Their awesome power and beauty are things that attract me to them but their arrogance ( its ok Syl ) really saddens me.

And here's the thing that I wonder about: why did the Elohim wait
until Covenant arrived to do anything? By the time he arrived, the
Sunbane was the most powerful force in the Land ... it took an
extravegent cost to repair the damage.

Are we supposed to believe the Elohim didn't know what was going
on thousands of years before? That they couldn't have warned the
good members of the Clave about the raver?

To use an analogy, the Sunbane started out as a pinprick, but by the
time Findail was appointed it had become a gushing wound. Why didn't
they put a bandage on it back when it would have cost them so much
less?

KaosArcana wrote:Infelice:

I'm with Tulizar when it comes to the Elohim. Their awesome power and beauty are things that attract me to them but their arrogance ( its ok Syl ) really saddens me.

And here's the thing that I wonder about: why did the Elohim wait
until Covenant arrived to do anything? By the time he arrived, the
Sunbane was the most powerful force in the Land ... it took an
extravegent cost to repair the damage.

Are we supposed to believe the Elohim didn't know what was going
on thousands of years before? That they couldn't have warned the
good members of the Clave about the raver?

To use an analogy, the Sunbane started out as a pinprick, but by the
time Findail was appointed it had become a gushing wound. Why didn't
they put a bandage on it back when it would have cost them so much
less?

I think they did nothing because of their arrogance. They were safe and content in Elemesndene, and had an eternity to deal with the Sunbane (or so they thought) if they so chose. I believe things had to be done on their terms. Since they were beyond the touch of the Sunbane, they could take their time planning its reversal. Perhaps the white gold and Linden were seen by the Elohim as the easiest way to cure the Land without getting directly involved. Either that or they realized they had waited too long, and the white gold and LA were a last resort.

I agree with all the factors Tulizar illustrates. And while I believe the Elohim are the "Children of the Broken Rainbow" I don't think they are as powerful as they are made out to be. This is a hard point to convey. What I mean by that is that yes they are powerful in "essence" but not that powerful in action. I feel that moving around in the normal reality, or on the surface, of the Land's earth is more difficult for them than they let on. Yes they can travel to different dimensions, and incorporate into the Earthpower...but Foul is too patient and powerful for them.

And here's another sticking point--the "patience" I refer to is VERY relative...What was there 4000 years or something between TPTP and TWL? Foul had plenty of time to make little warpings in Earthpower here and there and "prepare" the Land (almost like prepping 1's garden in a REALLY sick way) for the Sunbane's effect to be maximized. (and remember that activation took almost no time at all.) Look what Foul could do in a very short period of time in the 2nd and 3rd books with Earthblood compromised and the Law of Death broken...I seriously doubt the Elohim did nothing during this time: Chant and the others who are almost "turned to the dark side" probably fought tooth and nail against such preperations and came back to Elemesnedene as crippled and disillusioned "Vietnam veterans". (and that obviously had profund effects on the collective)

Back to my point about "essence" vs action--the problem here is that it's almost too esoteric to outline...Yes the Elohim can shapechange, flit around and traverse dimemsions and appear throught the Earthpower as wraiths or whatever in the Land. But they desperately need strong, or "purpose" driven mortals to enact "action" on the physical plane since Foul is present in one or more "planes" at the same time. If you see what I mean. (I don't think I made myself understood...but I tried... )