Kevin's Watch

Whenever scientists are asked to define intelligence in terms of what causes it or what it actually is, almost every scientist comes up with a different definition. For example, in 1921 an academic journal asked 14 prominent psychologists and educators to define intelligence. The journal received 14 different definitions, although many experts emphasized the ability to learn from experience and the ability to adapt to one’s environment. In 1986 researchers repeated the experiment by asking 25 experts for their definition of intelligence. The researchers received many different definitions: general adaptability to new problems in life; ability to engage in abstract thinking; adjustment to the environment; capacity for knowledge and knowledge possessed; general capacity for independence, originality, and productiveness in thinking; capacity to acquire capacity; apprehension of relevant relationships; ability to judge, to understand, and to reason; deduction of relationships; and innate, general cognitive ability.

Does this mean that we humans are the most intelligent life-forms on the planet? If you were an advanced alien life-form, would there be a different definition for intelligence?

Vain, I'm gettin' a little sick of you coming in here starting trouble.

Well I'll wade in. Isn't it fairly clear that we human beings are the most intelligent species on the planet? I mean, I'll gladly defer that title to the species that can argue me down from that position.

As far as the super-intelligent aliens go, we would have no way of answering that question would we? It's like being asked to point in the direction of a physical fourth dimension. It doesn't exist in our frame of reference; so we can't perceive (or label) it.

stutt

Stutty wrote:Well I'll wade in. Isn't it fairly clear that we human beings are the most intelligent species on the planet? I mean, I'll gladly defer that title to the species that can argue me down from that position.

Good post.

Yes, we're probably the most intelligent...well...I sometimes suspect the dolphins may be a little up on us...afterall, when faced with dry land, technology and development, they clearly said "bugger this for a game of soldiers" and went back to surfing.

As for the aliens, well, as Stutty said, there's no way to even guess what their criteria might be. By definition, they will be alien and thus potentially completely unfathomable.

--A

Do you think it's necessary that intelligent life will have the capacity to communicate with each other? No matter how alien a life form may be, if it is intelligent, don't you think we will find a way to do it? It would also be a pretty good criterion to judge the rest of life on earth. (Of course, where's the line between communication and parrotry?)

I have no doubt all intelligent life can communicate...but what if they do so with pheremones? Or light-spectrums still undetectable to us? what if they're vacuum dwelling telepaths with no concept of sound or sight?

--A

I define intelligence as goodness at thinkin' and stuff.

And now, a quote:

Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much – the wheel, New York, wars and so on – whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man – for precisely the same reasons.
-Douglas Adams

Dolphins don't have beer.

Case closed.


stutt

Uh-huh and no alcoholism, drunken driving etc etc.

--A

..Yes..all that about adapting , creating..but what of,,perceiving Irony? I mean..yay for the Pythagorian Theorom, but if Pythagorus couldn't tell a joke or laff at one..my god! I bring this up because I remember an exchange written about ,by the gorilla Koko's handler. Koko being a gorilla who has learned " American" sign language, one day , while clutching a blue blanket, kept signing " pink". The handler kept signing back ,," no, blue!" This went back and forth for a while,, until Koko put the blanket up for close inspection and pointed out a small piece of lint on the blanket that was indeed,,pink. The handler wrote down that there was an impish grin on Koko's face.


Well..that Koko learned to sign in the first place may be seen as a show of Intelligence,,ahh but the ability to pull a joke,,irony,,demonstrates a path possibly only made accessible by some form of " intelligence." Kinda like SRD 's point of " unearned knowledge".. There are directions of thought to be traveled..but the ticket to travel has to be paid by experience first. There is an subtle Irony in that. The question of youngsters is always..how do i get the experience then?...like its something one can run to the Mall and purchase with a plastic card.

You can have a bunch of information..like a pile of rocks..or better yet,, a field full of rocks..but what you do with them can be seen as Intelligence. Even if one decides to do nothing but contemplate the wonderment of the field,, the human is " doing" something. Mentally " doing" something with information seems to be the playing field of defining Intelligence. This is where we get in trouble with SAT tests and the like. The parameters of " thought and Experience," of those who put the test together, are reflected in the questions of the tests. The " alien" analogy is claimed to be already here by some academicians. Perhaps a essay question on these tests ought to be...Tell us your favorite joke..or what you think is a very funny joke or story...??

So..an alien's Intelligence mite be determined by its humor. True,,wiping out a whole planet of Humans mite be the funniest thing it ever thought up. Then again,,a gorilla signing Pink may tickle an aliens funny bone to such a degree, that it becomes our salvation. Wouldn't that be a hoot! Perceiving Irony seems to me as a sign of intelligence,,but of course, possessor of the Grey Poupon between the ears, even Intelligence is not the end all..There is Wisdom to be fulfilled.

lurch wrote:..Yes..all that about adapting , creating..but what of,,perceiving Irony? I mean..yay for the Pythagorian Theorom, but if Pythagorus couldn't tell a joke or laff at one..my god! I bring this up because I remember an exchange written about ,by the gorilla Koko's handler. Koko being a gorilla who has learned " American" sign language. one day , while clutching a blue blanket, kept signing " pink". The handler kept signing back ,," no, blue!" This went back and forth for a while,, until Koko put the blanket up for close inspection and pointed out a small piece of lint on the blanket that was indeed,,pink. The handler wrote down that there was an impish grin on Koko's face.

Koko wasn't telling a joke. Koko is just a smug bastard.

Koko wasn't telling a joke. Koko is just a smug bastard.

This display of intelligence reminds me of the old joke,,what do you give a 400 pound gorilla that walks into a restaurant?..any thing it wants!..Its seems that Koko signed some terms of endearment to a visiting grad student one day at the compound. At first an amusing trifle , was then realized to be a bit more serious than originally perceived. The red haired bearded grad student was strongly advised not to visit the compound ever again.

A sense of humour as a requirement of intelligence? Damn...that might disqualify half the human race as it is.

--A

Avatar wrote:A sense of humour as a requirement of intelligence? Damn...that might disqualify half the human race as it is.

--A

by any other means..still the same conclusion.

Lurch, fantastic post!

A brief tangent on humor and intelligence . . . one of my favorite commercials lately is the Burger King commercial in which the astronomer and his assistant are enjoying some Steakhouse Burgers. Oh, hell, just watch.

You arrogant punks!

Seriously, I think intelligence is something that could be defined universally, across species, even for aliens. We've that particular discussion before. I won't rehash all the points I made there. I'll just say briefly that I think intelligence is the ability to willfully, consciously focus one's attention upon the acts of consciousness themselves. If you can do this, you can do everything else listed above in the opening post. Abstract thinking comes from being able to step "back" from the flow of consciousness to the the symbols and medium through which consciousness moves. This is why Koko's "joke" was funny. Because we are able to step out of the language interaction which we thought was taking place, and realize a deeper level to that interaction. Such a realization moves us up and down the language/consciousness divide, to realize both the inherent limitations (with the prejudices involved . . . e.g. we think the gorilla--which is "dumber"--doesn't understand, but then we realize the it is we--who are "smarter"--who doesn't understand), as well as the potential for breakthrough communication with another species. Limitation and liberation. All possible by stepping out of the stream of consciousness and seeing how it works to place us in the world, and with others. Everything else (like abstract thought, pattern recognition, deduction of relationship, etc.) follows from that.

What really f*cks me up is that we're not really stepping out of the consciousness stream in order to look at its shape. This "stepping out" is also part of its shape. A strange eddy in the swirl of being.

Everything alive has intelligence to some degree.
Just responding to outside influence and adapting is intelligence.
(Crystal formation of the other hand is not.)

But I think "true" intelligence, is the ability for one species to understand and communicate with another and, of course, Diet Coke.

But I think "true" intelligence, is the ability for one species to understand and communicate with another and, of course, Diet Coke.

Now there is an idea..a sci fi story about an alien species visiting earth or a outpost of mankind,,that communicates thru " Coca Cola."..like,,an alien ingests Coke..then like a cow , regurgitates it passing it to a fellow alien and it then ruminates on it for awhile, then regurgitates it and passes it to another for rumination....Of course humans would have a difficult time with the idea and story could be told from the perspective of the first human who " tries" to "communicate" with the aliens...A freebie to any writer so willing..Like Coke would be Latin,,and Pepsi would be like,,Russian,, and RC would be like..Spanglish....etc.

Hmm, reminds me of intelligence-by-digestion theories which credit pyschedelic plants with increasing our intelligence via the introduction of self-consciousness. If you've every tried one of these plants, you might find reason to agree with the game-changing nature of their effect.

Yeaa.. I know what you mean Malik,, I tried some fresh Jalapenas a while back. I was made aware the next day, tho, not my mind,,of another part of my body..Yeeeoow!. Definitely conscious altering.I think I'll stick to smokin them. Thats Intelligence!.

If Tom has three apples and you take away two, how many apples do you have?

Spoiler

2

Missing this question does not imply that you have no intelligence; it merely indicates that you may not have a lot of it.