Kevin's Watch

Do the giants have a naming ceremony in adulthood?

The giant names have always been very evocative to me, and have always been some of my favorite character names in the chrons.

I had assumed that the names of the three giant-raver brothers - Kinslaughterer, Flesharrower and Satansfist - were not their original, given names. It made sense to me that these names were given to them by Foul (or maybe the ravers themselves) in mockery of the giants.

But I was rereading WGW, and during the Honniscrave's story about Cable Seadreamer's injury it struck me as odd that the giant who would later sustain a major head injury (from a cable) and then become the giantish equivalent of a seer have such a name (Cable Seadreamer) from birth.

Last Chron spoiler:

Spoiler

And the name Longwrath as well..... seems kind of an odd name to give a child at birth - unless he was really colicky.

But I don't recall any mention of the giants being renamed when they get to adulthood. Does anybody else remember anything like this?

Good question, Mortice Root! I don't remember an adult renaming custom being explicitly mentioned in the books (and like so many things if it isn't put right in front of me I don't think about it, LOL). It would definitely seem to be implied, though, but maybe only for those Giants who had some type of significant life experience that warranted it.

"Guy named Octavius winds up with eight limbs… what’re the odds? ..."
-- J Jonah Jameson, Spiderman 2.

You don't have to presume that a Giant has to reach adulthood before he picks his name. Sometimes the world is funny, and they end up fitting the name they have. Or fitting it better. Or differently.

I call it literary license, as opposed to indicative of any Giantish culture.

Agreed. It's another of those things SRD doesn't see the need to write explicitly.

Spoiler

However, Longwrath was not his birth-name. IIRC the other Giants speak of this when they tell his story.

The choice of one's "adult" name is something common in many cultures, and has occured in other writers' work as well.

Recall in Dune, where Paul was given the private name "Usul" by the tribe, but told "You much choose the name of Manhood, which we shall call you openly." (Don't have the book handy, so spelling and exact quote may be off).

Piers Anthony, in Tatham Mound (about a Native American's life), wrote his protagonist to have many names throughout life (Two which spring to mind are "Throat Shot" and "Tale Teller")

Then again, my real initials are WWW, and my career revolves around Internet technology. There's no way my parents could have foreseen that in 1962...

wayfriend wrote:"Guy named Octavius winds up with eight limbs… what’re the odds? ..."
-- J Jonah Jameson, Spiderman 2.

wayfriend wrote:You don't have to presume that a Giant has to reach adulthood before he picks his name.

Very true. I shouldn't have been so quick to use the term "adult renaming". I guess I don't even remember the age at which a Giant is considered to be an adult. What I was really getting at was the possibility that if something very significant happened to a Giant then he or she may alter or even completely change his or her name based on it.

wayfriend wrote:I call it literary license, as opposed to indicative of any Giantish culture.

Fair enough, but IIRC it did seem that the Giants were the only race in TCTC that had this type of naming convention.

IrrationalSanity wrote:The choice of one's "adult" name is something common in many cultures, and has occured in other writers' work as well.

Interesting. I guess it is good to avoid being bound by ones cultural constraints when reading fiction!

IrrationalSanity wrote:"Throat Shot" and "Tale Teller"

Boy it sure sounds like one of these two would be a much more "direct and to the point" type of person.

IrrationalSanity wrote:Then again, my real initials are WWW, and my career revolves around Internet technology. There's no way my parents could have foreseen that in 1962...

I don't know about that. Parents know a few things!

Thanks for the responses, guys.

wayfriend wrote

I call it literary license, as opposed to indicative of any Giantish culture.

You're probably right. But I thought I'd ask - this is maybe my 5th read through - so it's entirely possible I've missed a few things. It has been known to happen.

Spoiler

Longwrath was the name given to him after his injury and his subsequent desire to journey while muttering slay her...

I think the Giants rename as adults. Pitchwife was not called Pitchwife from birth.

Andy Kalish wrote:

wayfriend wrote:I call it literary license, as opposed to indicative of any Giantish culture.

Fair enough, but IIRC it did seem that the Giants were the only race in TCTC that had this type of naming convention.

The Ramen were similar, if you recall the thread about Winhome Gay becoming Manethrall Rue.

I could buy that a Giant might want to change his name as time goes on. As at least one Ramen has done. But there's nothing mentioning a naming ceremony or a coming of age AFAICT.

BTW, there's nothing about "Cable Seadreamer" that says Earthsight. Seadreamer is the same ilk as Foamfollower, or Saltheart for that matter.

Pitchwife, on the other hand, may have changed his name once he had chosen his profession. But even then, having been born malformed, his parents may have foreseen his future assignments, or maybe even sensed his magical talents early on.

Again, you're right. "Seadreamer" doesn't have to refer to Earthsight. But in my mind, it's not a far reach from "dreams" to "visions" - which could be Earthsight.

If there weren't any specific references to renaming in the texts (and it sounds like there are not)

Spoiler

outside of the last chrons

it's probably another case of SRD only creating the details he needs to tell his story, and leaving other points vague. I had just wondered if anyone had recalled an "in-world" example of giants changing names.

Thanks again.

wayfriend wrote:The Ramen were similar, if you recall the thread about Winhome Gay becoming Manethrall Rue.

Ahhh, great point! I had forgotten about her (perhaps I was trying to forget her sadness.) Was she the only Ramen to have done this as explicitly noted in the text? Although I can't really quantitatively defend my POV it seems to me that it happened much more frequently with the Giants, though. Thanks!

I think the Giants were named later in life or at least had their name extended..possibly at 40 human years old, since they considered that to be very young - but old enough to have gained a craft or special ability by that time, heres a couple giantish names I came up with for some professions.


Truecourse Keelsetter = great shipcrafter
seadive Barnacle render = Ship hull barnacle scraper
Orecraft steelmelder = blacksmith
seeall Kinwatcher = Nanny
Smitefist Skullrender = Giant Heavy weight champio
Ledge Homecarver = Carpenter

then there are Giants Like

Mistweave,....was he a young giant? possibly re named to

Mistweave Healall? since linden gave him the place of healer?

or maybe dropped the Mistweave all together and re-named
Healall Rendmender? heh

Andy Kalish wrote:

wayfriend wrote:The Ramen were similar, if you recall the thread about Winhome Gay becoming Manethrall Rue.

Ahhh, great point! I had forgotten about her (perhaps I was trying to forget her sadness.) Was she the only Ramen to have done this as explicitly noted in the text? Although I can't really quantitatively defend my POV it seems to me that it happened much more frequently with the Giants, though. Thanks!

Not just her... there was Lithe, Thew, Hum, Grace, ... apparently the Ramen were frequently named for qualities or features similarly to the Giants. At least, in the time of the First Chronicles. That was what I was trying to demonstrate.

wayfriend wrote:Not just her... there was Lithe, Thew, Hum, Grace, ... apparently the Ramen were frequently named for qualities or features similarly to the Giants. At least, in the time of the First Chronicles. That was what I was trying to demonstrate.

They were all renamed? Wow, how did I miss/forget that? Just one more thing I need to try to take in when I start my reread prior to AATE I guess.
Were they all renamed as part of the "standard process" of officially becoming a Manethrall? Thanks again...

Andy

All those guys got renamed? I don't remember that either. Uh oh. Time for a reread.

No! I'm not saying that!

Oy.

Let me 'splain. No, there is no time. Let me summarize. No, it's too confusing. Let me just run away.

Agreed, the Ramen didn't all take new names. Wayfriend is just referring to how they all had "descriptive" names (WF, how'd I do? )

Spoiler

And of course the Insequent have at least two names. But that's another matter.

Okay, just named for qualities or features. I see. Sorry for the brain meltdown, wayfriend seems pretty gosh darn knowledgeable so I kinda just ran with my misinterpretation. Sorry...

OH! Ok. Well, lot's of people in the land have descriptive names that they earn later in life. Kevin Landwaster for example.

wayfriend wrote:"Guy named Octavius winds up with eight limbs… what’re the odds? ..."
-- J Jonah Jameson, Spiderman 2.

Hehe.

Now if there was only a giant named "Lindenslaughterer."

FR Spoiler:

Spoiler

Although now that I think about it...we already have one of those...

-jay