Kevin's Watch

‘This is definitely “a rock and a hard place”. How does this help us ?’
‘that’s not exactly what I meant’

As with many chapters in Fatal Revenant, ‘Tactics of Confrontation’ delves into matters which were once the stuff of legends and myths in the context of the Land’s history ..

The appearance of both Caerroil Wildwood and the Viles in this chapter had already been foreshadowed in both ROTE and in earlier chapters of Fatal Revenant : Esmer outlines the plight of the Viles during the time of Berek Lord-Fatherer’s reign in FR’s ‘Difficult Answers’… the ‘glamourised’ version of TC speaks of the Forestal Caerroil Wildwood as an “out-and-out butcher” in the chapter ‘Interference’, while the Theomach seeks to balance the discussion, forcing Covenant to recount the root of the Forestal’s ruthless ways.

‘Tactics of Confrontation’ begins with Linden, Covenant and Jeremiah situated on the verge of foreboding, sentinent forest Garroting Deep. Covenant and Jeremiah contrive to merge their respective theurgistic talents in order to teleport themselves and Linden towards their destination, Melenkurion Skyweir. Covenant appears to fear rousing some nameless opposition during the effort of translation, and indeed the trio are soon hindered by unseen “barriers”. In their haste to elude their pursuers, Covenant and Jeremiah become separated from Linden, who finds herself lost amidst the gloom of the forest. Linden can hear Covenant and Jeremiah calling to her from some other dimension, but she has effectively been cut off from her companions.

Linden soon becomes aware of an ominous presence, elusive to her perceptions. Through the disembodied voice of Jeremiah, she comes to realise that she has fallen under the scrutiny of the non-corporeal Viles. As Linden’s senses adjust, she finds she can ‘see’ what the elusive Viles are saying as if she were afflicted by synaesthesia.*
The Viles recognise Linden as a figure of power, and while they debate the virtue of her presence in Garroting Deep, Linden raises the courage to question their reasons for being in the dire forest, so far from their home in the Lost Deep.

Thanks to the Esmer’s aid at Glimmermere, Linden deduces that the Viles are on the brink of corruption, ‘the cusp of learning to despise themselves’; Ravers have been at work among them, sowing the seeds of self-contempt.
At one point, both Linden and the Viles attempt to warn each other of impending dangers :

The Viles :

Lover of trees, we are here because the others exert hazardous theugies – and you permit them, holding powers which have no need of theirs.Your folly compels us. The wood that you claim must defy them, yet it does not…. You strive towards Melenkurion Skyweir and the Power of Command. But the master of white gold has no use for the EarthBlood, and its Power cannot Command wild magic.
You serve a purpose not your own, and have no purpose.

Linden :

You’ve been lied to. You’re being manipulated. The Ravers hate trees. They want you to do the same. Not because they care about you. Not because you’re in any danger. They just want you to start hating… If you do that enough, you’ll end up just like them.

Just as Avery seems to be getting through to the Viles, Covenant intervenes, urging her to flee as he and Jeremiah unleash their powers within the sanctity of Garotting Deep. The Viles respond to the provocation with a vitriolic riposte, which in turn stirs the Forest; Wildwood and the Deep respond to the intruder’s display’s of force with it’s savage song. Covenant’s glamour appears to mask their complicity in the violence however; effectively deceiving both the Viles and the Forest into believing each has attacked the other. In the ensuing chaos, Covenant, Avery and Jeremiah seek to escape. A fierce battle is fought between Caerroil Wildwood/the Deep and the Viles, and the trio are able to teleport away from any immeadiate danger as they leave the Forest behind them.


• What implications will Linden’s conversation with the Viles have upon the Arch of Time ? Back in Linden’s ‘proper’ time, the Viles have been long-extinct – but could her interaction with the Viles 3000 years prior have any effect upon the ur-viles ? Could Linden’s influence upon the Viles have altered the genetic imperative’s that they encoded during the spawning of their creations; the Demondim, who in turn spawned the ur-viles ? Would such action be subtle enough to be re-absorbed into the Arch without damaging Time itself ? Just what the hell have the ur-viles been trying to say to Linden anyway !?
• How had Esmer known that Linden would encounter the Viles ? Does he ‘know’ time as the Theomach does, or was he privvy to Covenant’s plan to steal Linden into the past as it was being planned ?
• How the hell did Linden earn the title ‘Lover of Trees’ ? Linden Avery : Lover of Trees just doesn’t have the same ring to it as Thomas Covenant : Unbeliever now, does it ?

* Wikipedia defines the condition thusly : “a neurologically-based phenomenon in which stimulation of one sensory or cognitive pathway leads to automatic, involuntary experiences in a second sensory or cognitive pathway.” – clear ? Good.

In the movie " Good Fellows"..Paul Sorvino plays the local mob boss. There is a scene of him in prison preparing the evenings meal along with the rest of the gang. Paul slices up a clove of garlic really really thin with a razor blade. Then tosses the shavings into the pan. Years later,,as a guest on the Dave Letterman Show, Paul takes a typical goofy Letterman question in disbelief. Dave asked him if he " studied" how to cut the garlic so thin. Paul sensed Letterman having some fun with him, and eventually got the gist of what Letterman was doing. This chapter, Tactics of Confrontation, really needs to be sliced thin, thrown in the pan, heated up so as to release its " flavor" into the rest of this fantastic meal being served in FR. Yes, I'm still with the metaphor.

And speakin of metaphor, Donaldson really turns up the heat in this chapter. I mean..this chapter is Flambeau! This chapter alone ,accounted for the most dashes to the Merriam Webster per page for me. In the thread discussing SRD's arcane and ancient word list,,this chapter was the stuffed roast pig with an apple in its mouth at the luau. The sentences signaling the metaphoric analogies with " like", "as if", etc, go beyond the simple one to one,,then continue on from the graspable to the ...What In The Hell!!??..Ahh the smell and taste of garlic!! Heres an example of going into the surreal , mind stretching , highly imaginative, creations of metaphor by the author.." In response, she smelled surprise. As it bled across her senses, its tang was unmistakable.". As the author describes the experience.." co-mingled senses.",,the Surreal. Here is a favorite of mind and mine,," In shapes as ready as knives, colors as obdurate as travertine...",,aah the shavings of toasted garlic!

Then the Big Question,," Why do You permit the purposes of the others, when you have no need of it?" Yes,,all by itself,, in the midst of the darkest of ebonys, totally dislocated and disassociated from all that is logical and within the parameters of reason,,completely surrounded by mystery..an essential question to us all..why do you allow the purposes of others to rule your life, your being,,when you have all the power to create your own purpose,, your own life, your own being,,your own spaghetti sauce....Linden doesn't answer the question..no,, Linden does an SRD trick,,( see Malik's thread on SRD's trickery in the Gradual Interview answers)..she answers the question, with a question. Perhaps not all jokes die on the dissection table.

Okay..a slice of fresh made bread,,a wedge or two of garlic butter,,just heated up enough to start melting the butter,,and a wave or two of your favorite olive oil..bon appe'tit!....That just sounds so good right now..

Anyway..So, the Illusion Masters aren't just content on misleading Linden. No, they aren't ... just content on ridiculing and dissing Linden,, No, they want to destroy that which makes music,, that which creates Majestic Castles and things of lovelyness and beauty.. The Illusions Masters want to destroy the ability to Create,,The Illusion Masters want to destroy,, that which makes an Individual,, an Individual. They want to destroy the answer to the Surreal Question,, Who Am I?..They have hazarded direct exposure to creatures of creativity with using Linden as bait for their trap. A mistake? or just more salt in the wound for Lord Foul 's use later?

I like these Viles on the cusp of being corrupted. Their Surreal reality is SRD at one of his Imaginative bestus. The garlic cloud almost makes me cry. No matter how disassociated,,distant,,unconnected , to the " real" world of the " Land" they see themselves as..the realization that they still, no matter how hard they try,,are connected to the Land,,conflicts them by the paradox of it,, only because they chose to see conflict in that connection. The Ravers have succeeded in selling the " Or".

The authors display of word craft and metaphoric virtuosity in a chapter about the Illusion Masters attempts to destroy the creative process,,strikes me as a fantastic demonstration of the Surreal, "Humor Noir". It is Delicious !!

..SRD, you didn't go thru all the trouble of thin slicing up this garlic appetizer of Vile,,without plans of them being included in the sumptuous meal to come..right?

But the master of white gold has no use for the EarthBlood, and its Power cannot Command wild magic.
You serve a purpose not your own, and have no purpose.

How do they know this? How would they know about whitegold. How do they know the 'purpose' of going to the earthblood? Somehow they seem to have knowledge of Covenants 'purpose' as well as Lindens.

SoulBiter wrote:

But the master of white gold has no use for the EarthBlood, and its Power cannot Command wild magic.
You serve a purpose not your own, and have no purpose.

How do they know this? How would they know about whitegold. How do they know the 'purpose' of going to the earthblood? Somehow they seem to have knowledge of Covenants 'purpose' as well as Lindens.

Well we are dealing with entities that..uuhhmmm..communicate with visible sound..point being,,they are of another " reality". At their most basic..the Vile are " Mystery"..undefined, dark black, ethereal, one or all..etc.." Mystery"... They dwell in a reality that has the answers to your question.

I'm willin to bet, that SRD never out and out answers your question,,because he wants You to discover Your Own answer in Your Own mysterious Imagination.

Or the obvious answer...because the author told them.

Thank you, Sleepless one, for starting us off with a good summary.

My, Linden seems to be forever at the mercy of these mysterious entities who know everything!

When she had packed as much food as she could lift comfortably into a bundle which she slung over her shoulder, she had followed Covenant and Jeremiah deeper into the gloom and the scraping wind, rough as a strigil, of Bargas Slit.

strigil: a blade for scraping skin. Now that's a wind.

More and more, the energy which Covenant and Jeremiah invoked appeared to resemble Lord Foul's iterated lightning when the Despiser had taken Joan's life.

I knew it! It is like Lord Foul! This was my immediate thought when they first teleported back in time, that that lightning could not be a coincidence.

How does Covenant get Foul-like powers?

Deliracy possessed her, a whirl of memory and confusion as lurid as fever, gravid as nightmare.

deliracy: delirium.

Its master considers us with disdain. We have come to discover the cause of his contumely. We have done naught to merit opprobrium among the woodlands.

contumely: rude treatment.

That will have to be Part I, Part II will come soon.

Part II ...

The Viles sure say a lot of things that seem important. Its as if half of their purpose was to function as a chorus (in the Shakespearean sense) which provides revelation.

The others are perilous. They have power. They exert themselves. And they responded to themselves, Yet hers is as great, and she does not. Within her she holds the devastation of the Earth, yet she permits the others to have their will.

Within her she holds the devastation of the Earth. Remember Runes? Remember "I am content"? Remember the prophesy? Could the Viles be speaking about the literal truth here?

The Viles speak of Lore several times. Lore is the supreme achievement of the Demondimspawn: their commanders are loremasters. Our lore is great, and our strength dire, say the Viles. Viles know lore.

But Linden has no lore, according to the Viles. She holds great powers without lore. ... It is not lore. It is given knowledge. She has been taught. She merely holds powers which surpass her.

Kevin had lore. And he passed it on to his descendents. Donaldson calls lore "a body of knowledge", "knowledge that tells you what you can do with your power" [GI]. But it's really more than that, too. It's "knowledge + training + comprehension + passion/energy/commitment" [GI]. That's why the viles distinguish given knowledge from lore. Given knowledge lacks training, comprehension, and commitment. That's why tou cannot just open a box of Kevin's Ward and be a loremaster.

And the lore-wise Viles say Linden's got no lore.

But that's nothing but true, and no surprise. Linden has had no training. She has little comprehension. But passion/energy/commitment -- ah, she has that in spades.

The Viles, too, have been gifted with given knowledge. Have we not heeded those who report that we are despised?. This given knowledge leads to their ultimate destruction -- as the Raver hoped it would. Given knowledge can be a very dangerous thing. Lore is always preferable to given knowledge.

You don't have to have the Vile's lore to know that Linden is in a precarious position and walks a dangerous line.

(I've written much more about the Viles themselves in another thread, and won't repeat it here. My Vile Pile is here.)

Well, before my current post, this chapter has tied ‘Stuff of Legends’ for the fewest responses, which is bizarre, because both chapters are two of the most interesting in the Last Chronicles. Our first look at Berek and the Viles? Where are you people?!?

Ok, to be fair, I didn’t catch up until over a month later. Maybe others are catching up, too. But if not, I’m proud to be among the Lingering Few. You guys rock!

Lurch, once again, I’m not exactly sure what you said, but boy did you say it! I’m simultaneously hungry and mystified. Coincidentally, I’m making my own spaghetti sauce right now. No kidding. Reading your post, right after I had minced fresh garlic, was pretty surreal. (I think . . . )

Sleeplessone, good job getting us started.

How the hell did Linden earn the title ‘Lover of Trees’ ?

I have no idea. Viles seem to be telepathic minder readers . . . but then why would they have any confusion over her intentions?

How had Esmer known that Linden would encounter the Viles ? Does he ‘know’ time as the Theomach does, or was he privvy to Covenant’s plan to steal Linden into the past as it was being planned

Good questions . . . ! Seems like Wayfriend picked up on them, too.

Wayfriend wrote: My, Linden seems to be forever at the mercy of these mysterious entities who know everything!

Ha! You’re right. It does wear on one’s credulity.

For millennia, the trees had suffered slaughter.

Maybe my sense of time is off, but I had no idea that the trees were being slaughtered for several thousand years before Berek.

I like that the forest towers so high that the distant mountains can’t be seen. You get no impression of this from the Map. Sure, it’s a detail meant to explain why Covenant and Jeremiah must travel in small line-of-sight leaps (rather than merely transport to MS), but it’s still an appreciated visual detail. This really gives us a sense of space.

Ok, plot mechanics time. It’s the only way I can attempt to wrap my head around this story.

Rock and a hard place. This has two distinct meanings: 1. L/C/J caught between Wildwood and the Viles, using their battle to distract both parties so L/C/J can escape. 2. Linden caught between Viles and her own helplessness, so she’ll give the ring to Covenant.

There’s evidence that Covenant wasn’t serious about 1. Page 220:

“We want to do this with as little fanfare as possible. . . The more effort we put into it, the more attention we’ll attract. So we’re going to move in short hops.”

Why would he want to use CW and the Viles against each other, but not want to attract their attention? This is meant to mislead Linden. . . who is the real target (IMO) of ‘rock and hard place.’

Covenant doesn’t tell Linden who is the “opposition” when she asks. Donaldson writes that he seemed too impatient to answer. Instead, Jeremiah answers. And how he answers is important. Donaldson describes it in terms that relate right back to the most important issue of Jeremiah: “His tone reminded her of his anger when she had insisted on seeing whether he had been shot.” Wow. That’s linking J’s “explanation” to a great source of angst. Could it be that J is misleading L, and feels the pressure of this duplicity? His answer is: to name them will only draw their attention. But doesn’t he want to draw their attention? How can their purported plan work if he *doesn’t* draw their attention? Again, the purpose here is to keep Linden in the dark, which serves 2, not 1.

And Linden seems to know it. “She was acutely aware of the manner in which her companions manipulated her.”

Then we start hopping. Linden doesn’t like it. She felt “vaguely appalled.” Though Law and the surroundings weren’t harmed, she felt aided by violence. Something about this shortcut—removing the necessity of physical effort—distressed her.

Covenant then tells her (p.222), “Once we get to the mountains, we won’t have to be so careful.” As if he didn’t have a plan involving rocks and hard places! But he clearly does. Again, he is trying to hide it from Linden. Why would he hide it if she weren’t the target? Linden notes the discrepancy of traveling through the forest and loathing it at the same time (which means Donaldson wants to point it out to us), and then thinks about “rock and. . . .” again.

The more they hop, the worse her ‘metaphysical dislocation’ becomes. Why does her distress grow now, rather than later after many more hops? Right now, a sense of ‘crepitation’ grows.

Crepitation:

1. A rattling or crackling sound like that made by rubbing hair between the fingers close to the ear. 2. The sensation felt on placing the hand over the seat of a fracture when the broken ends of the bone are moved, or over tissue in which gas gangrene is present. 3. The noise produced by rubbing bone or irregular cartilage surfaces together, as in arthritis.

Holy crap! That’s the nastiest sound/sensation in the universe! Another definition: “A dry, crackling sound or sensation, such as that produced by the grating of the ends of a fractured bone.”

Ok, we get it. She’s distressed by the hopping. She asks for a break, but Covenant is too scared to stop; says “they” are aware of them. “They” are putting up barriers. Hey, what do you know? They weren’t able to avoid attention. It’s almost like this was planned!

And then time starts to act funny. Their jump wasn’t instantaneous. Darkness, disorientation, shock overwhelm her. She has forgotten how to breathe; may have broken bones.

Then we meet the Viles. This is indeed a treat on the level of meeting Berek. It’s one of the single most bizarre confrontations in any Chrons. Donaldson still manages to surprise and satisfy my thirst for the fantastic. This is magical. These are beings so alien that just confronting them requires a realignment of her senses.

“Limned in condensation and grue, the voiced announced . . . “

Grue. Check out this shit for some blow-your-mind philosophical examination on the nature of perception, time, and expectation! And the problem of induction thrown in to boot! Wow! What a word.

And this one is a bit more fun. Grue:

The first mention of grues in the Zork games is the following ominous line:

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Further investigation will reveal more about their nature:

> what is a grue?

The grue is a sinister, lurking presence in the dark places of the earth. Its favorite diet is adventurers, but its insatiable appetite is tempered by its fear of light. No grue has ever been seen by the light of day, and few have survived its fearsome jaws to tell the tale.
[snip]

Grues were invented to limit players' options when faced with unlit areas. Without them, a player might attempt to blunder about in the darkness, perhaps (for example) to reach a lighted area beyond a dark passage. The presence of grues ensures that such tactics will fail, and forces players to solve any light-related puzzles first.

Ok, back to the point. On page 226, we learn see Covenant make another plea for his ring. He has brought her to these straights so that she will willingly choose to do so.

And here, we finally see the point of Esmer’s warning. Esmer wasn’t warning her about the Viles!He was warning her about this moment when Covenant would make her vulnerable, and then ask for the ring. Donaldson spells that out here:

“Helfire, Linden! Give my my ring! Just throw it. I’ll catch it. I can’t protect you without my ring!”

Viles, she thought dimly. Sensory distortion made a writhen vapor of her mind. She could not think consecutively. Covenant wanted his ring. The beings around her were Viles, the makers of the Demondim: absent in their proper time, but present here. He had always wanted his ring, ever since he had first ridden into Revelstone with Masters and Jeremiah.

Spectres and ghouls. Tormented spirits. [Note: I believe this is double meaning . . . Esmer pretending to speak of viles, but really speaking of Jeremiah and Covenant.]

Esmer had tried to warn her. Instead of answering her most necessary questions, he had described the history of the Viles and Demondim.

Her former lover hungered for wild magic: he craved it to repay some of this pain, although he had not said so.

If you go back to chapter 2, you can see on page 32 that Esmer “diverges” into a discussion of Viles precisely where Linden asks why the Demondim allowed Covenant to reach Revelstone. Esmer knows the answer, so he tried to tell her something that won’t be too overly helpful. But it turns out to be exactly what she needs when the time comes. Don’t give Covenant the ring!

[It’s also fascinating to go back and read other details of this diversion, where Esmer talks about Demondim and Loric and Kevin. They actually helped precipitate the RoD! This makes me wonder if later books will delve into these times, as well—that perhaps Esmer was giving warning of more than one event.]

And she comes close to giving it to him. Page 227, she says that if the chaos of this experience hadn’t overwhelmed her, she may have “drawn it over her head and tossed it aside, abdicating it indelible responsibility.”

Again the warnings: just be wary of me, remember, I’m dead. And Linden, fine me. So this moment was clearly intended by Donaldson to touch upon the identity of Covenant.

The Vile conversation is nearly too oblique to discuss. However, it reminds me of the visit to the Elohim. Both in style, form, and structure. Two opposing camps. Esmer also warned of a darkness taking hold on the Viles, and compared it to the Elohim (p.33).

They mention her “unearned knowledge,” though I don’t think they describe it that way. They say she has no lore. She has been taught—by Esmer—about the Viles. Aside from their disdain (and their own advice from Ravers), I was wondering about the consequences of this unearned knowledge. Is there a betrayal lurking in Esmer’s advice, as there must? Or does the original betrayal of not stopping C and J in her own time, suffice?

Back to C and J, p. 230: they discover that Linden is trying to *reason* with the Viles. And it’s important that Linden does this because of another bit of advice from Esmer: that which appears evil need not have been so from the beginning, and need not remain so until the end. This is more than just Donaldson giving Viles their props. Esmer is telling Linden she can reason with them, which gives Linden hope, so she won’t give up the ring. It changes the dynamic, so that C and J must cause Wildwood to get involved. This wasn’t the original plan! They *change* their plan because Linden doesn’t give up the ring. Very important. This makes the fullest sense of Esmer’s warnings.

Jeremiah (with grudging admiration): “I remember her. She doesn’t give up.”
Covenant: Then we’ll have to do it.” !!

Finally, Wildwood attacks the Viles. But it’s important to note that he didn’t do it until C and J lured him to do it. They caused it. And it was a backup plan to the true “rock and a hard place,” pitting Linden against Viles and the choice of giving up the ring. Page 238, “She had baited a trap by trying to reason with Viles.” But that reasoning wasn’t part of the plan, because Cov was upset and surprised by it. So the trap wasn’t really the plan, and the Viles weren’t really the prey.

Finally, the chapter ends with this:

She had been used. –a rock and a hard place. Covenant and Jeremiah had deliberately exposed her to the Viles—and for what? So that she would surrender Covenant’s ring? And when she ignored him in order to argue with the Viles, he and Jeremiah had created a conflict between them and Caerroil Wildwood.

What would he have done if she had complied? Would he have abandoned her to the debate of the Demondim-makers?

His design for the salvation of the Land made no provision for his ex-wife’s wedding band—or for their fatal son.

Nice razor sharp dissect there Malik, sure did cut the garlic thin.
Grue..what a blast!!..Fascinating that the character in the TV show LOST who breaks the " t" of Time,,who stops the certainty of the past from inevitably happening in the future,,for as long as he could,,is named David Hume...Linden did a Hume by not fullfilling TC's set up. She did not give up the ring under conditions that were meant to get her to. The exposure to the Viles has backfired on T and J. And the price is an attempt at the Viles destruction. The surrealists railed against predictability,,because to be predictable, means to be easily manipulated.
This freekin chapter remains a real mind blower. Again,,that the author demonstrates high talent and Art in a chapter about destroying Creativeness is High Irony. I suspect the author had alot of fun writing this chapter.

Oh hell yes I bet Donaldson enjoyed writing it. Lurch, you made a good point about hitting the thesaurus more this chapter than any other. I did, too. I think that was entirely intentional. On one hand, a person could make an argument that these obscure words are pretentious. I disagree. I take him at his word that he is trying to evoke a sense of "foreign" or "alien" or "fantastic" without resorting to a made-up language like Tolkien did. (Don't get me wrong, I love Tolkien's indulgent excesses.) By rooting these unfamiliar words in the real world, they simultaneously convey the unknown and the knowable. They share roots and etymology with words we use. "Grue," for instance shares a heritage with "gruesome." So the language itself evokes the sense of wonder that Fantasy in general evokes for me: a glimpse into the unknown that awakens a longing that feels familiar, like deja vu of some magical wonder I glimpsed once in my youth.

And Donaldson was certainly capitalizing on that effect by loading up on the obscure words this chapter. In fact, I think he was pushing it deep into the "unknown" end of that paradoxical spectrum. I go through an underline each word I don't recognize, and then look it up online. Answers.com is great. You get not only definitions, but encyclopedic references. It opens up Donaldson work like I'd stumbled on a gemstone in a lump of ore, knowing it was pretty in its raw form, but not realizing it was a million dollar gem until chipping it away, cutting it, and polishing it with analysis and study.

Yes, the Hume character is fascinating on Lost, especially his connection to time . . . and that's the main problem with induction--it relies upon the assumption that the past will be like the future, an assumption that is based on the past following a pattern. But that's obviously circular reason; it uses the thing it's trying to prove as evidence for the thing it's trying to prove.

It's fascinating that this has a connection with surrealism, their railing against predictability. You sound familiar with Hume, but if it's not someone you've read a lot of, he's great. He combines wit and insight with a unique voice and humor. One of my top 5 favorite philosophers.

"Linden did a Hume by not fulfilling Cov's set up." That's an excellent point. The pitfalls of predicting the future, especially when the human will (and advice from Esmer) is involved.

I am only familiar with Hume because of LOST. As each character pops up witha name of a philospher,,one is forced to do a little research anyway. So my understanding of Hume is only wiki deep,,but i was pleasantly surprised to see his name associated with the debate on Induction...and thereby connected to Grue. It only reinforced what I had gathered from the character as portrayed in LOST.

Thanks for the tip on Answers. com. Sounds like a time saver. It took me a whole evening before I dug out the gem of " coign". Isn't it great to find these freekin gems buried in SRD's work!!? He makes you work for them,, but what a pleasure on discovery. Kinda like a primer on exploring ones Imagination,,or.." being" of the Surreal..

IMHO,,Esmer is the Surreal. Like Dali's early paintings,,the results of his " critical paranoic " process..where Voltaire can be seen as an urn or Voltaire himself..Esmers words have all sorts of double and maybe more, meanings. You have perceived the surreal of Esmer. Linden gotta get" jiggy" with Esmer. I mean..he Loves her, does he not.?...perhaps a topic worthy of its own thread.?
Anyway, yea this chapter at all levels ,,takes us into the surreal. And it didn't hurt abit. It was rather an unexpected fun imho.

How the hell did Linden earn the title ‘Lover of Trees’ ?

Probably by restoring the balance and harmony of nature and defeating the Sunbane and creating a new Staff of Law. Since she actually is a lover of trees (her name is "Linden!") this isn't really a surprise.

Malik23 wrote:Why would he want to use CW and the Viles against each other, but not want to attract their attention? This is meant to mislead Linden. . . who is the real target (IMO) of ‘rock and hard place.’

Revelations in the very next chapter demonstrate that this confrontation produced results that were absolutely necessary to C&J's plans in a way that had nothing to do with Linden directly. Not that there can't possibly be more than one purpose. But if you work backward from there, then this means that C&J probably were sincere in wanting to evade attention.

Either they were doing so in order to choose where they where caught by the Viles, or when they were caught by the Viles.

Or perhaps they were doing it to ensure they were caught by the Viles. Their only claim was that they were avoiding Wildwood's attention; however, their hopping may have been shrieking for attention from the Viles.

Perhaps they were even trying to ensure that the Viles caught them before Wildwood did.