Kevin's Watch

I remember when Mhoram said "You are the white gold". When I read that I thought that it meant the wild magic was only Covenant's to wield. Yet Linden used it to heal Covenant and the Land. And then the Despiser used it to kill Covenant. Can just anyone wield it and use it? Or is there something special about Linden and Foul?

I'm assuming that when TC hadn't evolved yet into his "ultimate form" (at the end of the last book in the last battle with LF) anyone powerful enough could of manipulated the wild magic, even through him. However now I think it might be hard or impossible to do so.

I took it to be a guide to Covenant as to how to use the wild magic. In that it works like a limb, an extension of TC (or whoever is wielding it) rather than an external force... Or at least, that's the meaning I got from that comment in the context it was made...

let's not take that too literally... the substance of the ring is not the substance of the Arch, same like the "substance" of Covenant is not the substance of the Arch; it is, in my opinion, more like a hermetic-alchymic way of thinking: the structure of Covenant's soul, being, personality, essence, whatever is an exact "copy" of the Arch, a symbol, an emblem, a talisman - and that makes him capable to "attune" himself to the Arch, to the power of the wild magic; in this process the ring is just a mediator, a tool, a focus
in medieval times when the alchymists sought processes to convert various metals into gold it was principally not to become rich (although that also wouldn't have hurt:-)), but because every step in that process was being associated with some kind of gretare Power, a planet, the Sun, and the powers they represented; by those chemical conversions they sought to invoke those greater powers and thus gain mastery over the Universe and their own beings
that's how I see TC's role

and I see it as even though the 'substance' of TC's ring was white gold .. it was just a token .. of power he possessed himself. The power of wild magic was IN .. TC

.. Sure anyone who could possess the ring and know how to wield it could .. but TC could exercise wild magic without the ring .. because the magic was in him .. the power was in him ..

which is how TC defeted LF at the end of WGW .. through himself.

Ok, thanks Skyweir, I guess I understand a little bit better now, but its still a bit confusing, dont you agree?

Look @ my sig below--he is doing VSE on the wild magic as he did on himself, or his leprosy--2 drive the point further home...

Troy did begin to use it, or at least he started to show some power, until that Forestall (can't remember the name) stopped him. Covenant did give him the ring willingly.

I totally have to agree that the saying, "You are the White Gold" more has to do with the way to use it, and not in a physical way.

B

I know this post is old but i'm new... the creator did'nt choose TC because he wore a ring of WG hell he could of chose a million other people (WG was still in fashion in the mid-70's) i beleive he chose him 'cause he WAS--- COVENANT and he had the power within him, however flawed he was as a human being.Maybe it was because he was so messed up that he was chosen to begin with.TC was the power the WG was a simply a conduit.The premise of Choice/Freewill is thru-out the (@the risk of going religious)Bible.I think the creator figured it might be to easy to give the task of saving Worlds to a well-adjusted,stable,sane individual to so he picked COVENANT...

I believe TC is exactly what Mhoram called him.... white gold - not wild magic. Wild magic is graven in every rock, contained for white gold to unleash or control. White for it is the color of bone, the structure of flesh, discipline of life. White gold is not born of the Land.

Covenant was not born of the Land. Linden was not born of the Land. Hile Troy was not born of the Land. Roger is not born of the Land. Joan is not born of the Land. Each of them are fully capable of wielding wild magic, as evidenced by both TC and LA and attempted by Hile Troy. The ring is the portal thru which the wild magic is released. Remember when the wild magic exploded out of Covenants bones? Bypassed the ring. Mhoram's declaration occured when only Covenant was in the Land.

When Foul attacked Covenant at the end of 2nd Chronicles, Covenant was raised to the stature of wild magic incarnate.... not white gold incarnate. The wild magic is controlled by the white gold wielder... an outsider who has learned/practiced self control. Hence the ability of Linden to channel the ring and the staff of law. She learned/practiced self control.

Spoiler

Joan has no self control. Roger has a twisted version. Thus the unpredictable damage each are capable of inflicting to the whole earth

.

Spoiler

Now TC is physically alive again. What kind of control will it take to battle an insane wife and demented son, both capable of unleashing the wild magic graven in every rock? As previously stated....fasten your seatbelts!

Sorry Prover had to slap a couple of spoilers on the end. That wouldn't be necessary if this post was in the Runes forum. Not a criticism, just be careful.

Danlo, how are spoilers done? I looked through the FAQ and common questions threads, but couldn't find a code anywhere.

use the Spoiler function above (in your post/edit post box, next to URL) as you are posting it's at the end of bold, italics, underline, etc...>

danlo wrote:use the Spoiler function above (in your post/edit post box, next to URL) as you are posting it's at the end of bold, italics, underline, etc...>

Well, duh!

Thankee!

Now back to our regularly schedueled topic:

danlo wrote:Sorry Prover had to slap a couple of spoilers on the end. That wouldn't be necessary if this post was in the Runes forum. Not a criticism, just be careful.

Oops. Thanks. It never dawned on me to do that.

I think some of you are taking this way too literally. Remember that Donaldson thinks of fantasy as a genre in which characters traverse their internal "landscape" in an external world. The wild magic is Covenant's passion/love/power of creation. That's why he IS the wild magic, because he IS his passion.

Ignore the ring. The ring is only a symbol. The only reason that it's important is because he's held onto it despite the fact that his marriage is over; thus, it is only important in terms of what that means for his character: i.e., despite how much society and his family have rejected him, despite how much he is repulsed by himself, he still clings to the tentative memory of lost love. In other words, there is still hope for Covenant--he hasn't given up completely.

The reason Covenant doesn't know how to use his "ring," (in other words, his passion) is because he doesn't know how to feel anymore. He has locked his feelings away as a form of self-protection. He thinks that if he allows himself to feel, he'll fall prey to false hope and ignore the strict "toughness" that he needs to keep himself alive and sane.

That's all this is. If you have missed this, you have missed the entire meaning of the Chronicles, because it is chiefly a story about how a man who faces "the void" can still find a way to not despair, to still love and participate in Life.

This is a universal question; it doesn't only apply to lepers and outcasts. We are all slowly dying. We are all in need of love, community, and friendship. We are all facing the loss of everything we love as entropy has its way with the universe. How we deal with this (denying it, ignoring it, futily resisting it, or laughing at it) is one of the chief problems we face in our existence. It is our existential crisis. We all are masters of the wild magic that destroys peace: our passions can either be used to create or destroy. We can either love and help each other, or we can be greedy and vindictive. We can resolve to bravely accept the unalterable conditions of this existence, or we can give up and kill ourselves.

Debating the use of a piece of metal as a "conduit" for wild magic . . . etc., etc. . . . completely misses the point of these wonderful books.

I thought that it meant the wild magic was only Covenant's to wield. Yet Linden used it to heal Covenant and the Land. And then the Despiser used it to kill Covenant. Can just anyone wield it and use it?

Yes, anyone can use their passion. It is not limited to Covenant. The ring is just a symbol.

the creator did'nt choose TC because he wore a ring of WG hell he could of chose a million other people . . . i beleive he chose him 'cause he WAS--- COVENANT and he had the power within him, however flawed he was as a human being.

I think those of you who believe the Creator/Beggar is God are in for a rude awakening. Remember in the GI where SRD talks about the “mother of all spoilers.” In my opinion, the Creator is Covenant. [This is just my opinion, so I guess it isn't a spoiler.] The beggar didn’t exist. He was Covenant, too. This is fantasy. These people are not literally real. They are all symbols. Oh yeah, Lord Foul is Covenant, too.

Creation (what creators do) is opposite of destruction (what despisers do). Covenant was a writer who now burns his own books.

Thus, the "Creator" didn't choose Covenant to go to the Land. Covenant "chose" himself. Chose himself for what? This: to save himself. "Going to the Land" is just a metaphor for this desperate outcast exploring his own subconsciousness and the univseral existential truths of existence.

[This brings up many issues like: how can Linden share it with him? Perhaps because we all partake in these same existential issues. When we explore the fundamental questions of our reality, we are all traversing the same universal terrain. The Land isn't literally real; it is metaphorically real--meaning that what it symbolizes is real and universal.]

this is probably the most thought provoking post i've read to date,thanks Malik23 i'll think on it.

Hi all, I thought that the ring was just Covenants "means of articulation". However, Mhoram told Covenant "YOU are the white gold".
Dont those 2 statement preclude each other?
Does that come back to the white gold being a paradox?