Kevin's Watch

Posted: **Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:13 am**

Didn't like the ending..Left me wanting more. I've been holding on to this book since 89, ya 1989. I was in the Navy and a shipmate, fellow DnD player gave it to me. It took a 6 day power outage for me to pick it up. Got quickly addicted to it.

I'm starting Illearth War now.

So does anyone else find TC annoying and deserving of a swift kick in the pants? Snap out of it and fight ya sissy. The whole "woah is me" BS starts to drive me nuts after awhile.

You can see his potential but at the same time he's so undeserving.

BTW
I like this board, lots of good posters here, hopefully I become one of em.

Posted: **Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:11 am**

Things get much, much better with The Illearth War. That's my favorite book out of the original six. The ending of LFB might feel unsatisfactory because it wasn't really the end.

But that comment is not really fair to you, because it's not unreasonable for you (or anyone) to expect each novel to have a satisfactory ending, even if they are building towards something larger.

With that said, I do like the ending of LFB. Maybe that's because I've read them all and know how it fits into the whole (which, again, isn't entirely fair to you, since you can't be expected to have this view yet). I think it sets up the initial problem nicely: Covenant's problem in dealing with leprosy is that he has locked away his passion so that hope and loneliness and despair don't kill him. He is like the people who have sworn the Oath of Peace, who have limited themselves by repressing their emotions. Since this is Covenant's primary issue of the 1st Chronicles, we can't expect him to have accessed his power at this stage. The reason he can't use the white gold, the reason he needs "triggers," is because he won't let himself use it. Instead, he comes up with strategies to not have to use it. Hence, the deal he makes with the ranyhyn. That deal was for the express purpose of protecting himself from having to make a decision, to commit himself to the Land's fate, to become involved . . . in other words, to avoid passionately engaging his predicament--which is his problem in life, too.

So, the first book sets up his problem. The second book shows the price of that problem (this is carried over into the third, too). And then the third book shows how he comes to find one kind of strategy to overcome that problem.

Posted: **Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:54 am**

Indeed, Bruiser, LFB is just the beginning of a truly great journey. I felt the same way (way back when) as you do now when I read LFB the first time. But, I kept reading and I found myself in love with the whole series.

Please, keep an open mind and just enjoy the ride...it is so worth it!

Posted: **Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:08 am**

Good point. I should have added that I felt the same way, too. It's intentional. Donaldson wants us to feel frustrated in TC not using his power.

Posted: **Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:55 pm**

Welcome to Kevin's Watch, Bruiser! The ability and the inability to use power, the use and refraining of use of power are all wonderfully dealt with throughout all of the books IMO. And The Illearth War is excellent! I am blown away every time I read it. Enjoy!

Posted: **Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:18 pm**

I'm around 20 pages into IW. It's like the first book never ended so just trying to get through the rehashing of the first.

The biased towards leperacy is annoying as crap. Of course when the book was written the bias was a normal thing. The Sheriff is an ass.

His inner psych problems I'm having a hard time understanding on a personal level. I'm more of a just shut up and do it kind of person. You can't let circumstances create your enviroment, change them if you don't like it.

I am reading on of course. I'm addicted, I'm hoping TC gets his head out and takes charge. Want to cheer for him but at the same time slap him silly. Rape has me ticked off and I hope he gets whats coming to him for it.

Posted: **Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:28 pm**

thus the saga of the "anti-hero" goes forth...

Posted: **Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:29 pm**

Can't wait until you get to the 2nd Chrons....

A Donaldson classic trait is that all his books deal with difficult journeys to find oneself and each one brings us to something and someone different. That is a huge part of the joy of his writing. And yes, TC is a dick at this point in the series. Donaldson will admit that as well. For video proof click on www.fantasybedtimehour.com and watch episodes 39 and 40.

Posted: **Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:01 pm**

Bruiser, Donaldson has said that he had to make it believable that Covenant was on the razor's edge between, well, "good and evil," for lack of a better term. It had to be conceivable that Covenant could actually betray and damn the land (and himself). In my opinion, that makes his spiritual journey even more convincing, because it's not obvious at first that he will succeed. Indeed, that's a large part of the dramatic tension. That's the conflict of this story.

Posted: **Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:58 pm**

Bruiser wrote:So does anyone else find TC annoying and deserving of a swift kick in the pants? Snap out of it and fight ya sissy. The whole "woah is me" BS starts to drive me nuts after awhile.

I think everyone feels that way.

Anyway, welcome to the Watch!

-jay

Posted: **Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:10 pm**

Bruiser wrote:I'm around 20 pages into IW. It's like the first book never ended so just trying to get through the rehashing of the first.

The biased towards leperacy is annoying as crap. Of course when the book was written the bias was a normal thing. The Sheriff is an ass.

His inner psych problems I'm having a hard time understanding on a personal level. I'm more of a just shut up and do it kind of person. You can't let circumstances create your enviroment, change them if you don't like it.

I am reading on of course. I'm addicted, I'm hoping TC gets his head out and takes charge. Want to cheer for him but at the same time slap him silly. Rape has me ticked off and I hope he gets whats coming to him for it.

You should identify strongly with the character Hile Troy. His character
was designed to represent the "shut up and do it" kind of person,
along with the consequences which are Hile Troy's mistakes
based on this philosophy.
And ultimately he is punished for them.

Covenant "got what's coming to him" throughout this trilogy.
You can read this in various scenes where Covenant has to
live with the consequences of his error. But not to fear: these
books are about Redemption, and that's all I can say without
giving away the ending.

I don't know how to explain Covenant's leprosy to you on
a personal level. But from Covenant's perspective, he cannot
allow the beauty of the Land to affect him after he wakes up
from his dream, because this would certainly kill him.
His desire to return to the Land would cause him to forget
about his leprosy, his VSE, and the extreme discipline
required for him just to live. So unlike yourself I don't see
it as a psychological problem. Covenant is thinking
purely in terms of his own survival after he wakes up,
and this is a very practical pursuit. His focus is on the
real world and his leprosy, not on the Land which he sees
as just a dream.

Covenant has an extreme sense of personal responsibility.
The rape scene and his unwillingness to act in the Land makes
him appear irresponsible, but this is not true. On many
occasions Covenant takes responsibility for things that
have happened there. And at the end of the first trilogy,
he makes a decision which shows the depths of his
commitment and sense of moral responsibility. But
Covenant is also human, so there is inner conflict and
inner turmoil. In the end, however, he resolves it.

Posted: **Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:15 pm**

Welcome to the Watch.

Here you will find many Covenant Aficionados, each with their own interpretation. Some agree and others do not.
But one thing is common.
We enjoy the story that is being told.

Posted: **Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:40 pm**

Bruiser.... welcome to the watch, and since your only on the second book its hard to say anything without giving alot away. but i can say you made it past the hardest part where some just say "WTF he raped her??" and give the book back or never finish it. I wish I was reading these books for the first time, but every time I re read or listen to them I find something I missed.

hope you enjoy them as much as most of us here did.

Posted: **Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:23 am**

Welcome, Bruiser, to the web board with the most intelligent people on the planet, myself excluded. I read all the Chronicles books at least twice a year, and whatever else I can borrow in between. But the Chronicles are, by far, my favorite of anything I have ever read, and that's saying a lot as I devour books. The Second Chronicles moved me even more, but I can't say anything else, it will spoil it for you. I almost envy you, discovering this for the first time. You are going to be so addicted. I never get tired of reading them. Stephen R. Donaldson is a literary Mozart.

Posted: **Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:16 pm**

Oh Bruiser, you are now on the path of one of the most intricate and heart wrenching journeys in fantasy fiction. Donaldson is one of the grand masters, and as you come to the end of this amazing story the scope of it will overwhelm you and your jaw will drop in awe. In my opinion, Thomas Covenant is one of the best heroes ever created.

Hail and well met!!

Posted: **Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:43 am**

Bruiser-WOW! To be reading these books for the FIRST time again! I was 17 when I found this first, senior in high school, LFB had just been released the year before.
Yep, I remember being so disgusted with TC, but couldn't get enough.
I've since re-read these books many times at so many different ages. And yes, at the end of LFB, I STILL find myself thinking TC is such a WEENIE!
Somebody said you'll identify with Hile Troy, I sure did!!
All the books are a great adventure that leave us thinking. I can tell I've become more compassionate as I've aged just by my reaction to the various characters on each new read through.
ENJOY!!

Posted: **Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:25 pm**

KMDill wrote:Bruiser-WOW! To be reading these books for the FIRST time again! I was 17 when I found this first, senior in high school, LFB had just been released the year before.
Yep, I remember being so disgusted with TC, but couldn't get enough.
I've since re-read these books many times at so many different ages. And yes, at the end of LFB, I STILL find myself thinking TC is such a WEENIE!
Somebody said you'll identify with Hile Troy, I sure did!!
All the books are a great adventure that leave us thinking. I can tell I've become more compassionate as I've aged just by my reaction to the various characters on each new read through.
ENJOY!!

Took the words right out of my mouth. Its good to see people experiencing the Land for the first time. All I can say is that you are on the right track. We all disliked and even hated TC.. we all learned to love the Land. Its a journey not just for TC but also for the reader. Im not gonna say more except to say that all of this growth of the reader and TC will prepare you for the Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenent. You cant appreciate the Second set of books without first reading and experiencing the first.

Posted: **Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:09 pm**

I must admit the end of LFB caught me out too, but for a different reason.

The Chronicles were my first experience of a trilogy, so at the end of LFB I was thinking, 'according to the blurb, TC is suppose to come to the Land 3 times and this is his first visit.'

It was about twelve months later when I managed to purchase the first Chronicles in its entirety whilst on holiday in the Bath area.

Posted: **Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:31 am**

Bruiser wrote:Didn't like the ending..Left me wanting more. I've been holding on to this book since 89, ya 1989. I was in the Navy and a shipmate, fellow DnD player gave it to me. It took a 6 day power outage for me to pick it up. Got quickly addicted to it.

I'm starting Illearth War now.

So does anyone else find TC annoying and deserving of a swift kick in the pants? Snap out of it and fight ya sissy. The whole "woah is me" BS starts to drive me nuts after awhile.

You can see his potential but at the same time he's so undeserving.

BTW
I like this board, lots of good posters here, hopefully I become one of em.

Posted: **Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:34 am**

Bruiser welcome to the addiction known as Stephen R Donaldson. Read on fellow land lover, and enjoy the wave :> I have the impression SRD is the best in his class:> ~ Room

Kevin's Watch

Just finished LFB for the first time

Just finished LFB for the first time

Re: Just finished LFB for the first time

Re: Just finished LFB for the first time