Kevin's Watch

I've noticed very strong, very polar opinions on this, and was wondering how people on KW felt. I know my own opinion has shifted over the last few years.


I personally like it now, but I used to dislike it tremendously. My favorite opera is Die Meistersingers by Richard Wagner.

I'm not a big fan of vocal classical music in general (unless my kids are singing it ), but I've seen some opera in my time....

I voted "what is it" because although I do in fact know what it is i haven't seen or heard any of it to really know what it is.

Can't stand Wagner and all his sesquipedalian romantics. I prefer the true classical stuff. Beethoven's Fidelio or Mozart's Il Seraglio are sublime pieces of art.

aliantha wrote:I'm not a big fan of vocal classical music in general

Neither am I, so I have a difficult time engaging myself in, say, Schubert's songs, though Fist tries his best to encourage me.

But I do like Gregorian chants in small doses.

I can also enjoy Mahler's songs in small doses, mainly because his songs are thematically tied with his symphonies, which I revere (along with Beethoven's, of course). I am at heart a lover of the Big Symphonic Statement.

As for operas, some I love, some I only know and like from listening to the "highlights" (or bleeding chunks, as some would call them). Others I only have a passing interest in.

I love classical music, as long as it's orchestral. Opera, on the other hand, hasn't really grabbed me. There are certain ones (or parts of ones) that I liked when I've heard them, like the one in 'Pretty Woman' (I've heard it a few other times on NPR; think it's Debussy), but that's the exception.

Yes to Gregorian chant. Also Renaissance music, either vocal or instrumental. I love that stuff.

I briefly considered majoring in music in college. For the final in freshman theory, the prof played "drop the needle" (it was a *really* long time ago, okay??!? Sheesh!) -- she played a short selection of a piece we were supposed to have listened to/studied/more or less memorized, and we were supposed to list the name of the piece, the composer, and in the case of opera, what opera it was from. Well, we had two ensemble pieces in the opera unit -- one was an octet from one opera and the other was, I believe, a sextet from a different opera -- and I couldn't tell them apart and so of course I got them wrong on the test. The Renaissance "drop the needle" test, however, I aced.

And now I'm done hijacking Owlie's opera thread, I promise....

Opera overtures and highlights are as good as music gets. Alas, everything inbetween is... Well, I'm not a fan. But really, a disc of Wagner overtures!!! My god!!! You know how good it is? Even though it's impossible to entirely remove the vision of Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd from your mind when you hear it, Tannhäuser is still incredible! The Prelude to Tristan und Isolde is unbelievably lush and gorgeous, and also of high importance to the development of western music because of its harmonics. Lohengrin has the most beautiful, haunting chord changes... Ah, it goes on and on!

Of course, opera has a lot of vocal stuff, too. Heh

The tenor/baritone duet "Au fond du temple saint" from Bizet's Les pêcheurs de perles (The Pearl Fishers).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ekaMQP_Fwc
When they really sing together, as at 1:40, it's breathtaking.

A very famous part from Puccini's La Boheme. Rodolfo's "Che gelida manina" (What a cold little hand) and Mimì's "Sì, mi chiamano Mimì" (Yes, they call me Mimì)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRRqUaGOM2Q
Check out the power of Bjorling's voice and the music at 2:00!

The Dutchman's "Die Frist Ist Um"
in Wagner's Der Fliegende Holländer (Flying Dutchman)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebiHzOfNW0
(I'm told that this recording, with Hans Hotter, was made as bombs were being dropped on Germany, and you could hear them at times in the recording. I don't know if that's still true anywhere in the recording, or if it's been cleaned up electronically.)

There's probably a three or four other examples of amazing moments from opera's history. Especially since I've barely touched on the female roles.

Fist and Faith wrote:Even though it's impossible to entirely remove the vision of Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd from your mind when you hear it, Tannhäuser is still incredible!

"Kill the waabbit!" They did "Barber of Seville" too, do you remember? Elmer Fudd massaging hair oil into Bugs's scalp in an *extremely* energetic manner...

Ah, Tannhauser. Another overture we played in band....

aliantha wrote:Yes to Gregorian chant. Also Renaissance music, either vocal or instrumental. I love that stuff.

Renaissance music is cool, the little that I've heard. One of my favorite compositions is Ottorino Respighi's Ancient Airs & Dances, which actually are transcriptions of Renaissance pieces by the Italian Respighi (1879-1936). It's wistful, melancholy, but also incredibly joyful music. I always play it when spring arrives, because it is music that heralds fresh beginnings and nature's blooming in my mind -- along with Beethoven's 7th symphony .

Fist and Faith wrote:Opera overtures and highlights are as good as music gets. Alas, everything inbetween is... Well, I'm not a fan. But really, a disc of Wagner overtures!!! My god!!! You know how good it is? Even though it's impossible to entirely remove the vision of Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd from your mind when you hear it, Tannhäuser is still incredible! The Prelude to Tristan und Isolde is unbelievably lush and gorgeous, and also of high importance to the development of western music because of its harmonics. Lohengrin has the most beautiful, haunting chord changes... Ah, it goes on and on!

Yep, couldn't agree more. There's plenty of awesomeness in Wagner's overtures - that was how I got to know Wagner's music, after Ride of the Valkryies. When his music gets rolling, it can hit an intensity level that's, well...orgasmic. Anyway, this is the Wagner "greatest hits" CD I keep around:



It's a 2CD set that includes his overtures as well as various "bleeding chunks" from the operas. Serves as a darn good introduction to Wagner, and gives your speaker system a workout along the way.

If we're talking favorite bits from Wagner's operas, well, the Ring is really the only one of his that I'm familiar with. So let me cut to the chase: the Funeral March from Gotterdammerung (Twilight of the Gods) is one of the powerful sequences of music I've ever heard. It's simply devastating. The first time I heard it, I thought I had discovered the perfect soundtrack to the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. Specifically, the great funeral march made me see in my mind the last act of The Illearth War. Or alternatively, the last act of The Power That Preserves. So I was happy when SRD revealed that he listens to Wagner.

matrixman wrote:

aliantha wrote:I'm not a big fan of vocal classical music in general

Neither am I, so I have a difficult time engaging myself in, say, Schubert's songs, though Fist tries his best to encourage me.

Aren't you a big bleeding fan of Beethoven's 9th though--the choral symphony? Geez...

Fist and Faith wrote: Even though it's impossible to entirely remove the vision of Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd from your mind when you hear it, Tannhäuser is still incredible!

See, I like that stuff because of Bugs, not in spite of him.

What's Opera, Doc? is one of the best Bugs cartoons ever. It's a great sendup of Wagner and every opera cliche, but it also manages to convey a real sense of terror in the "kill the wabbit!" sequence where Bugs is fleeing from Elmer. Look at how Elmer's smallish figure is suddenly transformed by huge shadows and blasts of lightning into a truly fearful avatar of rage, if only for the briefest of seconds. That's an ode to dark German expressionism right there. Those Looney Tunes artists knew their stuff.

Lord Foul wrote:

matrixman wrote:

aliantha wrote:I'm not a big fan of vocal classical music in general

Neither am I, so I have a difficult time engaging myself in, say, Schubert's songs, though Fist tries his best to encourage me.

Aren't you a big bleeding fan of Beethoven's 9th though--the choral symphony? Geez...

There are always exceptions.

I like the choral parts of Mahler's symphonies, too.

IMO, Bugs Bunny is among humanity's greatest achievements. I'm not joking or exaggerating or anything. I am in absolute awe of those guys. They did for their medium what Babe Ruth, Frank Miller, and Wagner did for their mediums. Because of their genius, I can understand if some can't easily think of Wagner as the extraordinary music it is.

I have to say that if it wasn't for that Bugs Bunny cartoon I doubt I ever would have heard that song.

Yeah, that's what I meant. I like it because it's great, but I'd never have heard it if it weren't for Bugs.

Here's one of my favorite soprano moments. "Song to the Moon" from Dvořák's opera Rusalka.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_lbJ1MaDeo
Rusalka sings her to the Moon, asking it to tell the Prince of her love. The best part starts at around 2:22.

This one has the best dress:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtBPD95zBYE

Fist and Faith wrote: This one has the best dress:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtBPD95zBYE

.................no, I won't ruin this thread.

She's very pretty.

Fist and Faith wrote:Here's one of my favorite soprano moments. "Song to the Moon" from Dvořák's opera Rusalka.

I hadn't heard of this one before, and now that I have listened to it I very much understand why it would be a favorite. Beautiful.

I've always found operatic voices annoying, but overall I don't think opera is especially annoying as an art form. I don't think I'd go to a full opera, but opera music is okay in small doses, much like use of a harmonica.