Kevin's Watch

Can anyone clear up the meaning of the bar scene in the beginning of IW as far as Susie Thurston and her husband are concerned:

The Sign hilighted (contrasting Beware from LFB),
Her song,
Her husband,

I'm confused.

Help!?

I don't know that there is any deep meaning attached to Susie, the one-armed trucker, or any of that. I think it is meant to play out as a somewhat surreal night out that screws with his definitions of "real" and "dream". TC struggles with the reality of the Land. To have a woman whom he considered undeniably real address him as "Berek" (or so he thought) messed with his mind. Was the Land's Creator's hand at work here? Anyone's guess.

We had a discussion a while back about how dream-like many of the elements of the Land are, but your post makes me think that the dreaminess begins in the "real" world, before he lands on Kevin's Watch.

I think it was only during my third re-reading of TIW that I noticed that the name of the bar where Susie Thurston was singing was called "The Door", which is also the name of the Stone-warped soldier that Korik's group encounters in Sarangrave Flat.

deer of the dawn wrote:I don't know that there is any deep meaning attached to Susie, the one-armed trucker, or any of that. I think it is meant to play out as a somewhat surreal night out that screws with his definitions of "real" and "dream". TC struggles with the reality of the Land. To have a woman whom he considered undeniably real address him as "Berek" (or so he thought) messed with his mind. Was the Land's Creator's hand at work here? Anyone's guess.

I agree. It would seem that way. But it just doesn't line up with the first book. Everything put in the beginning except the boy with the note was real and non-confusing? from a fantasy point of view...maybe that's what SRD was after here.

Also, having her name on the sign, though? That seems to be real important, like Beware. Though I'm not even sure what Beware really had to do with anything.

I read that discussion on the dream-like qualities last night actually, very insightful people on this sight, main reason I love it.

Great catch, Borillar, I have read all the books at least 20 times and I never made that connection. I always wondered if the pitiful drunk guy was REALLY married to Susie myself. She never acknowledges him at all, yet he keeps saying she's his wife. He WAS drunk after all, and the waiter said he sat there every night and drank himself silly. I don't believe the waiter said they were married, did he?

Upon reading the intros of the 2nd and 3rd Chronicles, it seems to appear that Lord Foul is increasingly perverting people in the Real World.

I suppose in that light there's a chance that some of this influence may be present in that particular bar.. Yet it's hard to know for sure...

Rocksister wrote:I always wondered if the pitiful drunk guy was REALLY married to Susie myself. She never acknowledges him at all, yet he keeps saying she's his wife. He WAS drunk after all, and the waiter said he sat there every night and drank himself silly. I don't believe the waiter said they were married, did he?

*sigh*... SRD makes that very ambiguous, TC himself is skeptical, if I recall correctly.

I'm thinking this goes back (as everything seems to, lately) to SRD's "Fantasy as internal aspects of a person externalized". Which is getting kind of old for me. I liked it better when I didn't know that about him.

I used to think the Land was real, but now I see how the pieces fit.

But, really, how can SRD highlight Susie with the sign, and then...wait...

...unless the beggar in IW is Foul and Susie is the creator reaching through?

Jacob Raver, that's a new can of worms. Rockworms. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Hey...maybe a can of worms is my spinach and you just don't know it yet (I will test your rockness), yuk-yuk-yuk, woahw.

I think I can state unequivocably that this is the first time the "Suzie Thurston is the Creator" theory has been posed here at KW.

Not so much Himself, but rather a manifestation of his power, pushing Cov to the edge...

Susie Thurston is an anagram for "So he trusts in u".

Go figure.

I just read this part of IEW today.

The Introducing ... Susie Thurston topic can't come soon enough for me. Hue?

Hmmm. I suppose I will have to do this one sooner or later. Let me get the GildenFire scenes out of the way and I will put it down on next to do list

Vader wrote:Susie Thurston is an anagram for "So he trusts in u".

Go figure.

Just checked my dutch version, and this name isnt "tranlated into Dutch". Not that this is a big hint or something, because many names are similar to the english books...

So, i start to figure like you suggested.
- The "So he trusts u" anagram looks like a question to me.
- Also what is interesting; on the sign outside is mentioned something like this (I translated what was written in Dutch) "it is the absolute last performance of the brand new singer Susie Thurston". so she had a very short career I guess?
- The entrance of the nightclub is described by SRD as "the portal to hell".
- Nightclub is called "The Door" which is also the name of the Stone-warped soldier that Korik's group encounters in Sarangrave Flat. (quoted from Borilar, great post. thanks!)
- Last but not least; the sign is lighted by a "sickly green light".

It could make you start to think that Susie is influenced by Foul? I dunno, but it's fun to think about the possibilties.

go figure again?

The "Portal to Hell" bit is really interesting. Didn't Covenant smell something hellish when Elena was about to get extremely drunk!!!

The "Doors" of the Illearth War always fascinate me. I wonder if the Haruchai met up with Amok every once in a while, or did the Haruchai know the secret of the key to Damelon's door?

edit: I can remember Bannor had opened the door to the Hall of Gifts with a quick gesture. There must have been others apart from the Haruchai and Amok that could open doors magically? The Giants?

There is a fair bit of foreshadowing in the bar.

Of course there is the Door reference, which comes up not only with Warhaft Hoerkin, but Amok himself.

There is the Berek Reference.

Lytton dragging Covenant away could be a foreshadowing for what Troy wanted to do to him.

And after reading the book, the drunk who keeps talking about his wife, kind of reminds me about Covenant, who for the fist day and a half in the Land does the same thing.

Susie Thurston, the Creator? Interesting. Why not? If he can be a beggar, why not a burned-out country singer in a honky tonk night club? Man am I gonna laugh if that turns out to be true. What if the Creator is turning up all through ALL the books as characters we'd never guess? You know, the type of character that's only there for a little while, then forgotten. Like Memla. Or Marid. Or Hamako. Or the old woman, the Unfettered One. Can 'o worms, anyone?