Kevin's Watch

I can't say I missed FF and Prothall in IW, SRD brought to life many great new characters and trials, reveals and conflicts...

...but these were my two favorite characters in LFB...

...and I was just wondering if you missed them too?

Anybody?

I didn't miss Prothall after LFB; it made sense to me that he would retire. However, I did miss FF.

I think that's the strength of TIW: Foamfollower wasn't even in it, and it's far and away my favorite Covenant novel.

Was FF's return convincing to you?
To me he just stays the same, battling the same issues he faced seven years prior. Not really changing, not seeming any different than when he ended his part of the quest at Treacher's Gorge.

If he'd conquered the issues during his absence then he wouldn't be able to do so during The Power that Preserves - there would have been no hate for the fires of Hatosh Slay to burn away.

variol son wrote:If he'd conquered the issues during his absence then he wouldn't be able to do so during The Power that Preserves - there would have been no hate for the fires of Hatosh Slay to burn away.

That's not the problem. The problem is this: if that's all there is, then he really is just a one-dimensional character. I don't think he is, and I feel he should have seemed, a little different, have "journeyed" a bit, life happens, ya know. Though maybe seven years to a giant is seven months to us...

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:

variol son wrote:If he'd conquered the issues during his absence then he wouldn't be able to do so during The Power that Preserves - there would have been no hate for the fires of Hatosh Slay to burn away.

That's not the problem. The problem is this: if that's all there is, then he really is just a one-dimensional character. I don't think he is, and I feel he should have seemed, a little different, have "journeyed" a bit, life happens, ya know. Though maybe seven years to a giant is seven months to us...

It's actually 47 years. The 40 between LFB and TIW, and then the 7 between TIW and TPTP. He had already started down the path of his despite, which enabled him to depart and flee when the Giant-Raver struck Coercri. To me, in the TPTP, you have a natural progression of someone who hates himself and hates the enemy so much he is no longer a Giant: can no longer remember stories, doesn't speak as verbosely, etc etc. Even TC near the end of TPTP looks upon him with despair at what has happened to him.

I've always found the progression right and natural.

Besides, I don't think "life happens" to Giants the way it happens to us. And where would you have expected them to "journey" to, now that they've lost Home?

Him, anywhere, the continent is larger than what we know of, isn't it?

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:Him, anywhere, the continent is larger than what we know of, isn't it?

You make it sound like the Giants were staying at the latest Hilton Hawaii timeshare and were heading out to grab a golf cart and explore the volcanic rocks along the ocean.

In the 40 years between LFB and TIW they would have been consumed by trying to locate Home while doing all they can to help the Lords in their fight against Lord Foul.

Who has time for a walkabout in that scenario?

Foamfollower. Wouldn't he have been at Coerci? Or at least, wouldn't his tale in those 47 years have been relevant, considering his friendship with the Lords during and after the Quest?

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:Foamfollower. Wouldn't he have been at Coerci? Or at least, wouldn't his tale in those 47 years have been relevant, considering his friendship with the Lords during and after the Quest?

He was at Coercri. And left just prior to the slaughter of the Giants. And he told as much as he was willing to tell in TPTP about the experience.

I still fail to see any reason for him to go "walkabout", and then have us hear about it...it doesn't make any sense to me.

Hmm, interesting two-person discussion you have here. I won't ruin it by putting in my two cents' worth, but I will say, I missed Foamfollower. I wanted to see him and TC do more together. I do understand he had to move out of the picture for others to move in, but FF's presence in the series is one of the highlights for me. The Giants are my favorite part of the entire series, and I hate to say it, but the ones we have NOW (no spoiler) just aren't the same.

What was the story for Prothall after the Quest?? Can't remember...studying 2nd Ward...retiring in the north??

He laid down his Lordship and retired to some village in the north and died. Or he became Darth Kasaryne and trapped Sandgorgons for fun and profit after he fell to the Dark Side.

FF, IIRC, was disgusted by his fellow Giants morose response to the Giant Ravers, but, sadly, chose to express his disgust by leaving them rather than helping them. He was torn by his decision ever since, wondering if things could have turned out different if he had stayed.

Foamfollower was stronger than his fellow Giants. He had confronted his inner despiser (his battle rage). And so he was more resilient to the despair Foul ladled out.

IMO Foamfollower was visibly different when he returned in TPTP. He cursed himself, and considered his own crime of abandoning irredeemable.

What is the sense of all this? Among other things, Foamfollower became Covenant's perfect companion - conflicted, anguished, self-recriminatory, desiring vengeance.

gotchas...

...I still lament the lack of Big P doing a surprise important cameo in PTP...

rdhopeca wrote:

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:

variol son wrote:If he'd conquered the issues during his absence then he wouldn't be able to do so during The Power that Preserves - there would have been no hate for the fires of Hatosh Slay to burn away.

That's not the problem. The problem is this: if that's all there is, then he really is just a one-dimensional character. I don't think he is, and I feel he should have seemed, a little different, have "journeyed" a bit, life happens, ya know. Though maybe seven years to a giant is seven months to us...

It's actually 47 years. The 40 between LFB and TIW, and then the 7 between TIW and TPTP. He had already started down the path of his despite, which enabled him to depart and flee when the Giant-Raver struck Coercri. To me, in the TPTP, you have a natural progression of someone who hates himself and hates the enemy so much he is no longer a Giant: can no longer remember stories, doesn't speak as verbosely, etc etc. Even TC near the end of TPTP looks upon him with despair at what has happened to him.

I've always found the progression right and natural.

Besides, I don't think "life happens" to Giants the way it happens to us. And where would you have expected them to "journey" to, now that they've lost Home?

FF spent 40 years fighting to help Mithil Stonedown stay alive... remember that Triock or one of the stonedownors mention they would not have been able to endure without the giant... Foamfollower would not abandon them in their constant need to Roam the land. he as Rhopeca said was someone who had become that which he hates. self loathing and hatred of having to commit the murders of Innocent creatures under the power of Foul. He was a Legate..not a swordmain so he was not able to detach himself from the fact he was killing living creatures despite their attempts to kill him. remember he even gave a cavewight his own supply of Hurtloam rather than Saving it for someone fighting for the land, or himself.

I think Foamfollower as you said Jacob Raver actually was a single dimension character through the entire book of TPTP, Until Hotash slay. the thing that made me Love Foamfollower was his sacrifice and his redemption..it was a small section of the book but a Giantish Impact. Hotash Slay was Foamfollowers version of walking into the Banefire. they both emerged something new and stronger.

its strange to me that I really did Miss FF alot while reading IEW for the first time, but IEW still remains my favorite of the six books..... eight books sorry.

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:What was the story for Prothall after the Quest?? Can't remember...studying 2nd Ward...retiring in the north??

From IEW:

Bannor told him that High Lord Prothall, who had led the Quest, had resigned his Lordship even before his company had returned to Revelstone. He had not been able to forget that the old Hearthrall Birinair had died in his place. And he had felt that in regaining the Staff he had fulfilled his fate, done all that was in him. He had committed the Staff and the Second Ward to Lord Mhoram's care, and had ridden away to his home in the Northron Climbs. The inhabitants of Lord's Keep never saw him again.