Kevin's Watch

I'm rereading LFB (4th time now) and am definately seeing things much differently, more patiently, more details.

One thing I'm wondering is why Cov never really umm, explains how his view of others in the Land has changed since gaining this extra dimension of sense. We learn how diifferent and rich the Earthsense is, but never really how it affects Cov's perception of Atiaran and others.

Any thougths?

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:I'm rereading LFB (4th time now) and am definately seeing things much differently, more patiently, more details.

One thing I'm wondering is why Cov never really umm, explains how his view of others in the Land has changed since gaining this extra dimension of sense. We learn how diifferent and rich the Earthsense is, but never really how it affects Cov's perception of Atiaran and others.

Any thougths?

This Earthsense is the alluring part of the Land, along with personal health and vitality. It is the part which tempts TC away from the "real" world and the reality of his leprosy. For an example of how it changes his perceptions of people in the Land, he saw the wrongness in Elena just before she broke the Law of Death. But it does no good.

Yeah, but that was in the second book, not LFB.

There may or may not be literal examples for what you're asking, I don't recall. But picking up a bit on what Worm said about tempting Cov away from the reality of his leprosy:
The effect of his perception is implicit in the alteration of his character. He grows to love the land, over time, precisely because health-sense gives him direct sensation of the goodness, the beauty, the 'truth' (in a way) of the Land. [and the sense also shows the wrongness/ugliness/falseness attacking it, reinforcing the difference]
So, I don't think it's necessary for him to explain, since we see it in his actions/reactions and struggles.
We especially see it on those occaisions when he tries to explain his leprosy/unbelief and ITS effects/results to other char's. The whole reason he has to explain this is because the 'sense' is so unavoidably present.
In effect, he doesn't need to explain it...his constant battle to bargain/deny, and his eventual unfettered love of the land expresses it.

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:Yeah, but that was in the second book, not LFB.

I believe a direct answer to your question lies in the rape scene. Lena was made even more alluring to TC because of his new-found Earthsight.

What you call "Earthsense" is called "Earthsight." You're mixing "Healthsense" with "Earthsight" and creating "Earthsense."

It's my topic! :p

Okay. Gotcha-you're right. Tx.

But still. His loving descriptions of the Land far, far surpass any loving descriptions of say Atiaran's personality or character, that he would now be privy to.

I think SRD hadn't really thought of it, or thought it through at that point.

I would think that in moments like Trell almost-Desecration, he would have appeared as potent as the lore he wielded. Does TC ever actually see another character when they're powered up? Mhoram, perhaps?

Does one's inner-morality show a color like the wrongness of murder does a smell?

Wouldn't something like that be even more surprising than the Earthsense?

Hmm...

I don't remember any of the native Landers mentioning anything like being able to see a person's aura. But weren't the Giant-Ravers described as looking particularly evil or powerful or something?

haha.

I guess this means I need to reread the series again. My ability to quote by memory is slipping!

They had moral dicernment, which I guess I assumed was like the Earthsense.

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:It's my topic! :p

Okay. Gotcha-you're right. Tx.

But still. His loving descriptions of the Land far, far surpass any loving descriptions of say Atiaran's personality or character, that he would now be privy to.

I think SRD hadn't really thought of it, or thought it through at that point.

Here is, perhaps, TC's first taste of the Earthsight in LFB:

"Nearing Lena, he seemed to see parts of her for the first time-the delicacy of her ears when her hair swung behind them-the way the soft fabric of her shift hung on her breasts and hips-her slim waist. The sight of her made the tingling in his palms grow stronger."

I think that moment, that first taste of what the Land is like, had a profound effect on the entire Chronicles. Don't you?

Seeing an attractive woman and paying close attention is the same as SRD described. I'm not convinced at all.

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:Seeing an attractive woman and paying close attention is the same as SRD described. I'm not convinced at all.

You're not considering the difference before and after Hurtloam was applied. But then, you could always attribute TC's reaction to other things...

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:It's my topic! :p

Okay. Gotcha-you're right. Tx.

But still. His loving descriptions of the Land far, far surpass any loving descriptions of say Atiaran's personality or character, that he would now be privy to.

I think SRD hadn't really thought of it, or thought it through at that point.

Here is, perhaps, TC's first taste of the Earthsight in LFB:

"Nearing Lena, he seemed to see parts of her for the first time-the delicacy of her ears when her hair swung behind them-the way the soft fabric of her shift hung on her breasts and hips-her slim waist. The sight of her made the tingling in his palms grow stronger."

I think that moment, that first taste of what the Land is like, had a profound effect on the entire Chronicles. Don't you?

That's not Earthsight, that's Covenant experiencing his reawakened sexuality/attraction to a beautiful young girl. Basically being a lecher, like I believe he did (although, granted in not as much detail) with the high school girls in the "real world"

Everything refers to there, the shape of her ears, her waist, her breasts, are all physical features.

Although, you might want to help me on this one, doesn't he do a similar thing with the Ramen girl, the one that reminded him of Lena?

TC was characterized as being a lecher from the beginning of LFB. This set the stage for the rape to follow.

Winhome Gay?

I may be wrong...but wasn't part of the strength of TC's reaction that he was impotent before? [if not literally, sexually, at least metaphorically and psychologically...that he actually says...but I don't know recall if it was this early in the chrons]
The description of Lena is purely physical, but that makes perfect sense: though his leprosy has many effects on TC, it is at root a disease that takes away natural physical response. The Land is restoring his body, and not just to normalcy, but far beyond.
And as for being a lecher: It seems to me that the point isn't that he's hung up on young girls, but that these girls through their sheer vitality are painful and potent reminders of exactly how damaged he is, of what leprosy has taken away.

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:Seeing an attractive woman and paying close attention is the same as SRD described. I'm not convinced at all.

But a great deal of the impact of his reaction - the rape - is the result not of her beauty, but the fact that the Land had done the impossible - restored to him what he thought leprosy had taken away forever - his humanity, virility, ability to participate in feeling.

And it didn't just restore it to normal-Earth proportions,either. It added a dimension that he was totally unprepared for - Earth-sight adds the ability to perceive a moral valence in the thoughts and intents of others, like reading one's aura.

This was heightened in the 2nd chrons by Linden, not only in accuracy (she was able to use it as a power-scope to apply her medical training) but in power (we are led to believe she was given a concentrated ability to 'see' - either because she was more sensitive to it as a doctor, or a woman, or susceptible to it because of her vulnerability to the judgments of others?).

Back to the 1st chrons, though - one of the things that made Covenant even more dangerous was the fact that he was "closed" to the people of the Land - i.e., whereas he could read them using Earthsight, they were unable to return the favor. Now, was this because he was from outside the Land? Or had his leprosy made him so dead to regular emotion, meaning he was so incapable of normal reaction - and given instead to such extreme feelings that people expecting a 'normal' human range were left unable to interpret?

Jeff wrote:I may be wrong...but wasn't part of the strength of TC's reaction that he was impotent before? [if not literally, sexually, at least metaphorically and psychologically...that he actually says...but I don't know recall if it was this early in the chrons]
The description of Lena is purely physical, but that makes perfect sense: though his leprosy has many effects on TC, it is at root a disease that takes away natural physical response. The Land is restoring his body, and not just to normalcy, but far beyond.
And as for being a lecher: It seems to me that the point isn't that he's hung up on young girls, but that these girls through their sheer vitality are painful and potent reminders of exactly how damaged he is, of what leprosy has taken away.

I quite agree. And at this early stage in the novel most readers would feel sympathy for TC. His response to the girls at the store window would be considered a typical male reaction. I think this sympathetic plea is built up until the rape scene.

So much about TC's moral character is left ambiguous. I think if TC was a rapist at heart he would probably have had an arrest record from before his leprosy. But he apparently has no criminal record. Or perhaps he was just never caught. Anyway, after his leprosy affected his sex nerves he was not left psychologically impotent, and he would needlessly torment himself with such thoughts, innocently believing that all potential for acting on them was gone forever. Thus the rape could be considered forgivable, as long as I stick with the subjunctive mood.

I guess I just would expect the improved sense to make a far greater impact on Cov than it did...