Kevin's Watch

In the first Chronicles, Covenant is surrounded throughout by any number of extremely significant and towering characters native to the Land: Foamfollower, Elena, Mhoram, Bannor, etc.

In the Second Chronicles there is Brinn, Pitchwife, the First, Honninscrave, Mistweave, etc.

Where is Linden's Mhoram? Her Foamfollower? The characters Donaldson chooses to surround Linden with in the Last Chronicles just don't seem to have the same gravity, influence, and commanding presence as the preceding two series possessed.

Who is there to teach Linden? Who is there to teach the reader?

Well, she participated with some of those you mentioned. For the current series though...who is left that COULD teach her? [there are some...but they have priorities, battles, and mis-trusts of their own.] Also, I think that's part of the point...if she had a companion with Mhoram's combination of knowledge AND care and also faith, she wouldn't need TC. The people who KNOW can't help [or don't want to] The nature and wisdom that allowed the Land to teach TC and Linden is lost [actually, was stolen away]...now Linden and TC have to give it back.

Mahdoubt comes to mind. Too bad she's gone out of the story. She was the best new character by far in these chronicles so far.

Yes, the Mahdoubt comes to mind, but she is the only one who comes even close to the stature of a Mhoram or Foamfollower.

Otherwise, the characters surrounding Linden in this series don't amount to much more than bit players.

Please, stop chewing me up and razling-dazling me with your shining eye demondim spawn, you're scaring me!

We haven't seen the last of the Mahdoubt yet and I think Anele and Stave were pretty deep characters - admittedly different than Mhoram, Foamfollower and the like but still ...

It does seem as if our heroes won't be getting help from people in the Land anytime soon...though the Ranhyn are trying

You've made a very fine point, Spawn. I agree that the lack of other characters to ... and let's face it, this is what it is about ... the lack of other characters to love is very noticible.

It might have everything to do with Linden ending up needing to summon Covenant from his side of the Dead. If so, I wonder if the trade-off is worth the story you end up with.

Then again, I never found any characters that I loved in the Gap. Interesting. Intriguing. But no Mhorams. No Foamfollowers. So there's an argument that Donaldson's current style of writing excludes this element of story-telling.

Which makes me sad.

It is strange - I loved Anele, Stave and Liand the moment they appeared. I later loved the Ramen and even the ur-viles. Still the land looks empty.

Vader wrote:It is strange - I loved Anele, Stave and Liand the moment they appeared. I later loved the Ramen and even the ur-viles. Still the land looks empty.

The Land is empty to a large degree....all of the things we loved have been consumed into something else. Hidden by the Dirt.

wayfriend wrote:You've made a very fine point, Spawn. I agree that the lack of other characters to ... and let's face it, this is what it is about ... the lack of other characters to love is very noticible.

That's is it exactly. I couldn't have put it better myself.

I care about Stave and Mhatiir and Anele, etc.; but do I love them? No, I do not.

Worse yet; I do not love Linden, and never have.

I love Covenant, despite his faults. I dislike Linden because of hers.

Demondim-spawn wrote: I love Covenant, despite his faults. I dislike Linden because of her's.

Damn, that's an awesome quote.

dlbpharmd wrote:

Demondim-spawn wrote: I love Covenant, despite his faults. I dislike Linden because of her's.

Damn, that's an awesome quote.

I should join THOOLAH ASAP.

Demondim-spawn wrote:

dlbpharmd wrote:

Demondim-spawn wrote: I love Covenant, despite his faults. I dislike Linden because of her's.

Damn, that's an awesome quote.

I should join THOOLAH ASAP.

Just what THOOLAH needs...more recruits...but let's be serious:
First, that is a great line..
Are you supposed to love Anele?
Or Stave?
Or Linden?
And Linden had few people teachers so far, but what about experience teachers? None of you THOOLAH people, and "it's not as emotionally captivating people" read the part where she healed a hero's army, and didn't count the cost at all?
But, I repeat myself saying everyone who could teach her is her enemy in one way or another. [and also saying, I don't care whether you like Linden or not, she is amazinly well drawn, a great character, complete, and makes sense.]

Vraith wrote:

Demondim-spawn wrote:

dlbpharmd wrote: Damn, that's an awesome quote.

I should join THOOLAH ASAP.

Just what THOOLAH needs...more recruits...but let's be serious:
First, that is a great line..
Are you supposed to love Anele?
Or Stave?
Or Linden?
And Linden had few people teachers so far, but what about experience teachers? None of you THOOLAH people, and "it's not as emotionally captivating people" read the part where she healed a hero's army, and didn't count the cost at all?
But, I repeat myself saying everyone who could teach her is her enemy in one way or another. [and also saying, I don't care whether you like Linden or not, she is amazinly well drawn, a great character, complete, and makes sense.]

First, Demondim-spawn you're only a probationary member of THOOLAH until you clean up the language in your avatar.
THOOLAH is not a group of crass savages you know.
Ok, well..... not always.
Linden's accomplishments are amazing but her character JUST PLAIN SUCKS THE LIFE OUT OF WHAT SHOULD BE AN AMAZING READ.
I don't know why exactly either.
But she sucks.

There's no Mhoram for Linden because for some ghastly reason Donaldson won't let anyone else shine.

In the first series TC wasn't the focal character all the time.
Troy took half a book and then Mhoram took half of the next and both of them interacted with more interesting Land characters.
Through it all TC was struggling and miserable and the supporting cast shined bright in comparison to him. They were all inspirational and heroic!

In 2nd series all the inspirational people came and went around TC.
Sunder and Holian were tragic figures more than heroic.
The Giants were an exception though they stayed until the end.
But TC himself was also an inspirational figure this time, Linden was just a tag-along.

But in the 3rd series the tag-along is now the main character.
All the supporting characters are weak:
Liand is childlike, the Ramen are submissive to Linden, the Haruchai are constantly getting their asses kicked.

Vraith wrote:

Demondim-spawn wrote:

dlbpharmd wrote: Damn, that's an awesome quote.

I should join THOOLAH ASAP.

Just what THOOLAH needs...more recruits...but let's be serious:
First, that is a great line..

That quote would even be better if someone removed that rogue apostrophe in hers.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:First, Demondim-spawn you're only a probationary member of THOOLAH until you clean up the language in your avatar.
THOOLAH is not a group of crass savages you know.
Ok, well..... not always.

NEVER!

I think my avatar is not only funny, but true. TC spends the better part of six (6) Great Big Fat Novels being a Stupendous Assh*le. So look for my avatar to quash all competion during the 2009 Watchie Awards!

High Lord Tolkien wrote:Linden's accomplishments are amazing but her character JUST PLAIN SUCKS THE LIFE OUT OF WHAT SHOULD BE AN AMAZING READ.
I don't know why exactly either.
But she sucks.

Now you're making sense! Reading the thoughts of that woman depresses me to the point of slitting my own throat!

Vader wrote:That quote would even be better if someone removed that rogue apostrophe in hers.

Oops!

Will Do!

[ROGUEAPOSTROPHE]'[/ROGUE]

wayfriend wrote:You've made a very fine point, Spawn. I agree that the lack of other characters to ... and let's face it, this is what it is about ... the lack of other characters to love is very noticible.

For me, it goes beyond the characters. The Land itself is no longer a character in the story. No Andelain. No Morinmoss. No Sunbane, even. So far, this time, The Land feels like just some mountains and some smog.

Demondim-spawn wrote:I think my avatar is not only funny, but true.

Yes. I recognized your avatar from Fantasy Book Covers that Tell The Truth. (Don't look, Menolly!)

(Personally, I'd pick up and read a book called "Asshole Leper Hero". Who wouldn't?)

wayfriend wrote:

Demondim-spawn wrote:I think my avatar is not only funny, but true.

Yes. I recognized your avatar from Fantasy Book Covers that Tell The Truth. (Don't look, Menolly!)

(Personally, I'd pick up and read a book called "Asshole Leper Hero". Who wouldn't?)

HA! Funny link there, Wayfriend!

I googled SRD and found the mock cover in the "Images" section.

I wasn't real keen on picking up and reading a book with the silly title Lord Foul's Bane, but I'm sure glad I did!