Kevin's Watch

It's been mentioned before that the Giants in FR are somehow different from previous Giants - less endearing, perhaps a bit more barbaric or simply with more blunt edges to their personalities than usual.

I don't think there is anything in the story itself to explain this change, nothing in recent Giantish history to account for it.

One thing has changed, however, and that is the sense of universal peril that suffuses the story. The end is drawing nigh, and I would give the Land's Earth, at best, two months, as they reckon time, to "live."

This kind of "fatal" story is simply not the right context for the endearing Giants of yore.

Franky what I find missing from them are two things: their sense of joy, and their sense of humor. Perhaps that is related to part of your point about the universal end, but you know, things were just as bleak in TOT and WGW and the Giants then had verve and humor and joy.

I think we'll see those things [if we don't I'll be sad]...we've barely met these ones yet...and remember that they have had a few centuries of being unwelcome in the Land, and that these particular ones have had precious little experience of joy lately. They'll come back.

These are a different "type" of Giants.
They are not an official Search of mostly sailors probably hand picked for being the very best and given the responsibility to save the world.
They are all warriors (like the First and she wasn't all happy and lovey dovey either) hastily gathered together.
But it's a tight group though, they care about each other.
And with one of them being a murderous mad-giant hell bent on killing Linden (bless his heart) they don't have a lot to be joyful about.

Plus, they've all just subjected themselves to a camoraa, of course they're going to be a little reserved and subdued.

Also, we do not yet know how they will emerge from their encounter with the Giantish dead.

I do hope they bounce back from their somewhat dour aspect. If they don't I'll be soul-crushed.

rdhopeca wrote:Franky what I find missing from them are two things: their sense of joy, and their sense of humor. Perhaps that is related to part of your point about the universal end, but you know, things were just as bleak in TOT and WGW and the Giants then had verve and humor and joy.

Only this time it really is the end. I'm not saying these Giants are somehow affected by it, only that SRD has written this kind of Giant into the story for a reason.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:These are a different "type" of Giants.
They are not an official Search of mostly sailors probably hand picked for being the very best and given the responsibility to save the world.
They are all warriors (like the First and she wasn't all happy and lovey dovey either) hastily gathered together.
But it's a tight group though, they care about each other.
And with one of them being a murderous mad-giant hell bent on killing Linden (bless his heart) they don't have a lot to be joyful about.

Circumstantially, they don't have much to be joyful about. The mad Giant will come back to himself after he finally does away with your friend Linden.

After being stuck on a boat, chasing around a mad giant, probably getting kicked, punched and slapped around by aforementioned mad giant for , like months, if I were o one the Swordmainnor I wouldnt be joyful like the giants of old just yet.......

hearthrall antonicus wrote:After being stuck on a boat, chasing around a mad giant, probably getting kicked, punched and slapped around by aforementioned mad giant for , like months, if I were o one the Swordmainnor I wouldnt be joyful like the giants of old just yet.......

Let me just say then they aren't the types of Giants we'll miss when they're gone. They're ok...

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:Let me just say then they aren't the types of Giants we'll miss when they're gone. They're ok...

I won't be making my mind up about them until they're gone (put a different way: until their journey in this book ends. I don't think I've had enough time yet to actually get to know them and make any kind of decisions as to whether I'll miss them or not).

Has it been settled that Longwrath really is intent on Linden, or do the rumors still hold that he may have mistaken her power for Joan?

danlo wrote:Has it been settled that Longwrath really is intent on Linden, or do the rumors still hold that he may have mistaken her power for Joan?

No, and there is just too much ambiguity at this point to make that distinction with any accuracy. It IS obvious that he is trying to kill a female from outside of the Land whom possesses White Gold, however, that may be Joan as well as Linden...

....however, he IS homing in on Linden like a freakin' heatseaker (or in Linden's case, a frigid-seeker) so I think that may have something to do with it. He started at the Giant's homeland, and went, DIRECTLY, to Linden. Getting from their homeland to the Land was something that not only something that happened completely by accidents to the Giants of the Search, but IIRC it also took decades.

Longwrath is certainly targeting Linden.

I think the new Giants don't measure up to the old simply because Donaldson didn't write them as well.

There is certainly nothing expository about any of them except Rime Coldspray and Longwrath. And there's not much of that.

How many of the giants can you name without looking?

Spoiler

Rime Coldspray (Ironhand)
Frostheart Grueburn
Onyx Stonemage
Stormpast Galesend
Halewhole Bluntfist
Cirrus Kindwind (lost her arm)
Scend Wavegift (slain by Longwrath)
Moire Squireset (slain by skurj)
??? Cabledarm
??? Latebirth
And Exalt Widenedworld, aka Lostson Longwrath

That's how forgettable they are.

wayfriend wrote:I think the new Giants don't measure up to the old simply because Donaldson didn't write them as well.

I don't know what that means. He didn't write them as well?

I don't know, peeps...Except for S.F., it took a while to really appreciate the various Giants...we've barely been introduced to these ones yet. And the circumstances have changed...not to mention if these were just like the others somebody would be sure to start a thread on "Every Giant is the same Giant."

Vraith wrote:I don't know, peeps...Except for S.F., it took a while to really appreciate the various Giants...we've barely been introduced to these ones yet. And the circumstances have changed...not to mention if these were just like the others somebody would be sure to start a thread on "Every Giant is the same Giant."

Vraith makes a good point. It's been a long time since my very first reading of TWL, but I'd be willing to bet that I really didn't grow fond of Pitchwife and the rest of the Giants until I read TOT.

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

wayfriend wrote:I think the new Giants don't measure up to the old simply because Donaldson didn't write them as well.

I don't know what that means. He didn't write them as well?

He didn't develop them as characters as well as he did the earlier Giants.

In other words, I think most of the problem lies in how well they are portrayed by the author, rather than on something related to the plot of the story.

Donaldson doesn't develop characters the way he used to. They're complex, sure. But they're not as overtly appealing as they used to be.

wayfriend wrote:

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

wayfriend wrote:I think the new Giants don't measure up to the old simply because Donaldson didn't write them as well.

I don't know what that means. He didn't write them as well?

He didn't develop them as characters as well as he did the earlier Giants.

In other words, I think most of the problem lies in how well they are portrayed by the author, rather than on something related to the plot of the story.

Donaldson doesn't develop characters the way he used to. They're complex, sure. But they're not as overtly appealing as they used to be.

Again...I don't know...it took a long time for TC to be appealing, and it used to be that the world was new for us, and that changes things [a happy, story-telling, loves just existing Giant?...instant appeal...but we're on our 15th or so now. The first ones are EASY, cuz they're NEW. Also, in the beginning, almost every character when first met is an archetype for a race or viewpoint. Also easy, in its way. But SRD, in the course of the stories, made the archetypes more individual...that's what stories DO. [for instance, I liked Mhoram, and Saltheart from the moment I met them...but it took time to love them as individuals, not just admire and/or sympathize with their nature/purpose] But there aren't any archetypes to start from left, now...they can't start simple but broad and symbolic and grow more specific...they have to start already complicated and become appealing, because the "negative space" that surrounded the world in the beginning doesn't exist anymore: It's already painted in. [kinda like real life...when you're young and hot, relationships are completely different in process from when you're semi-old, and only hot in relation to others in your age group, and kids, pets, bills, and work are sure to intrude]

wayfriend wrote:

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

wayfriend wrote:I think the new Giants don't measure up to the old simply because Donaldson didn't write them as well.

I don't know what that means. He didn't write them as well?

He didn't develop them as characters as well as he did the earlier Giants.

In other words, I think most of the problem lies in how well they are portrayed by the author, rather than on something related to the plot of the story.

Donaldson doesn't develop characters the way he used to. They're complex, sure. But they're not as overtly appealing as they used to be.

He hasn't had time to develop them as characters. Foamfollower had little depth in LFB, that came later on. I'm saying these Last Chrons Giants are "drawn" as being more rough-hewn for a reason. The fact that they have had a tough go of it, as someone else pointed out, is consequential to how their story was written. But the reason it was written that way has to do with the exigencies faced by the very Earth itself when there is very little time left for it. This story was not written in the context of Foamfollower's or Pitchwife's, but more in the context of the First's personality. The "personality" of this story is different from the others, and the Giants reflect this. Notice that LF seems more buoyant, less serious, as if he knows his eons-long imprisonment will soon end.

As far as Longwrath goes..

When did he set out to look for Linden?
How much time did it take for the group to sail and enter the Land?
How long "in days" has Linden been in the Land versus Joan?

There is a possible point where he is searching for Joan and by the time he entered the Land he tuned in on Linden because she weild not only the Wild Magic but also a lot of Earthpower. She's a beacon compared to Joan, whom may be hidden and obsured.

I am finding the Swordmadien fairly refreshing. Seems the women are acting as a unit. And maybe the women are more serious than their male counterparts.

Honnigrave wasn't so jovial either in the second Chronicles.