Kevin's Watch

Okay, so I was talking to my sis on AIM, and I posted Lena's song to her:

SRD wrote:Something there is in beauty
which grows in the soul of the beholder
like a flower--
fragile--

for many are the blights
which may waste
the beauty
or the beholder--

and imperishable--
for the beauty may die
or the beholder may die
or the world may die
but the soul in which the flower grows
survives.

My sister's response:

So its pretty

But it always cracks me up when things start yoda style

something there is in beauty

and once you start reading it in yoda voice

its all over

It took me quite a while just to get over the (to me) ridiculous title, Lord Foul's Bane, enough to even begin the book. That title had me balking for a couple of years.

It was a relief to find out thirty years later that that silliness can be laid at the doorstep of Lester.

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I'm not a fan of poetry (or Yoda), so I always sprint through it as fast as possible in novels, paying little attention, though I've gotten more out of SRD's than (for instance) Tokien's.

This appears to be "bash Donaldson week" at KW.

Lina, sorry that your sister didn't get anything out of that poem but a laugh. Might I be so bold as to suggest that it's a reflection of her shallowness that she would be so willing to dismiss the poem (and by extension the whole book) on style without assessing the content.

As for the title Lord Foul's Bane, I don't remember having a strong opinion of it either way. What primarily attracted me to the book was Darrell Sweet's arresting cover. I did, however, think that The Illearth War and The Power That Preserves were better titles than LFB.

The book was relentlessly recommended to me by an old friend. I just couldn't get past that title. Thank the Creator I did.

And my general apathy toward poetryl is my problem, not SRD's.

After reading both Chronicles several times each, I had a very hard time convincing myself to re-read the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Thank the Creator I did.

Little-shared secret: I actually thought the title was Lord Foulsbane (two words) for a while.

If the poem were truly written in "yoda voice," then it would start:

In Beauty something is

Of course, SRD could've said

There is something in beauty

But,

Something there is in beauty

just sounds better to me.

How's that for literary analysis?

You rock, Dlb!

Btw, Lina, I didn't mean that you were bashing SRD, of course. Sometimes I just trip over myself in my, um, state of ire when I'm defending Donaldson.

Some may not love SRD's poetry, but that would not necessarily be a reason to reject LFB.

MsMary wrote:Some may not love SRD's poetry, but that would not necessarily be a reason to reject LFB.

Precisely. There is a serious problem when one uses certain forms in literature [including poetry], state of being verbs [ like there is ] being one of them . But a few lines of badly written [though the sentiment/purpose is important to the story] poetry is a ridiculous reason to avoid a book. Heh..as is a bad title, though I succumb to that regularly.
The real reasons are: 1) People can't f-ing read. 2) Fantasy is Geeky [unless it's culture/mythology] 3) Fantasy is [insert own modifier here, anything from Evil to Silly]. This is a direct result of #1.

matrixman wrote:Btw, Lina, I didn't mean that you were bashing SRD, of course. Sometimes I just trip over myself in my, um, state of ire when I'm defending Donaldson.

Hey MM... D'oh! Yeah... I actually wasn't trying to get my sis to read the Chronicles. (I generally don't try to get people to read the Chrons, strangely enough. Even though I sort of want to... I decide not to in most cases.) I was sharing the poem with her because I LOVE it and it was related to the conversation we were having on AIM.

I actually meant this post/topic in the most tongue-in-cheek, jesting kind of way. Like, "Wow, I never thought of that. Lena's song in Yoda-voice*? That would have hurt. Owww..."

The idea that this might have turned someone off on the series was intended to sound ridiculous. But I guess that, in reality, stranger things have happened.

I'm a little sorry that people were taking me so seriously.

* Though my sis and I now stand syntatically-corrected care of dlb!

I can think of other reasons people can't get into LFB exclusive of the poetry (which I frankly think isn't the reason):

People are turned off by the bad thing TC does fairly early in the book.
TC is a sort of anti-hero hero, and people can't get into that.

MsMary wrote:I can think of other reasons people can't get into LFB exclusive of the poetry (which I frankly think isn't the reason):

People are turned off by the bad thing TC does fairly early in the book.

Which one?

I think he means the rape.

At first, I was a little thrown off by how negative TC is. I got over it, obviously. I would've been distressed if he'd continued shouting leper outcast unclean to himself mentally throughout the entire series.

MsMary wrote:I can think of other reasons people can't get into LFB exclusive of the poetry (which I frankly think isn't the reason):

People are turned off by the bad thing TC does fairly early in the book.
TC is a sort of anti-hero hero, and people can't get into that.

Yeahhhhh... I think the rape is WAY WAY WAY more significant in this whole thing than any sort of problems people may have with the poetry. (including but not limited to "hearing" the words in your head in a "Yoda voice") Just... nobody got my irony.



But if we're being all serious, then I have to say that in my first read, the chapters where he's still in the real world DRAGGED. That was a problem for me. I was like, "When is he going to get to the fantasy world?"

It was only once I'd read the first 2 or 3 books completely that I went back and looked at the first few chapters and found them so heavily-laden with meaning. I didn't GET the meanings until I saw the "more of" Covenant that you see in the Land.

ashke09 wrote:I think he means the rape.

I know that's what she meant. I couldn't resist asking due to her seeming too squeamish to say the word outright.

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I honestly don't recall what kind of reaction I had to Covenant's rape of Lena the first time I read LFB.

It's a conscious choice he makes, which strikes me as inexcusable and heinous, regardless that the hurtloam had suddenly removed his sexual impotence and that he thought he was dreaming.

I'd be afraid to sleep at night if I dreamed of raping women.

Covenant's remorse for the deed; along with so many of the Land's people willing to overlook or forgive his crime, and the ever-mounting consequences that play out over the rest of the First (and even the Second) Chronicles is really a huge part of what (to me) separates SDR's fantasy world from the rest of the pack.

Demondim-spawn wrote:

ashke09 wrote:I think he means the rape.

I know that's what she meant. I couldn't resist asking due to her seeming too squeamish to say the word outright.

I think MsMary just wanted to avoid spilling that major plot point out of courtesy for those who may be browsing this forum but have not yet read the book. Heh, obviously too late now. : P

I honestly don't recall what kind of reaction I had to Covenant's rape of Lena the first time I read LFB.

I read it as part of an engrossing story, but I don't think I grasped the awfulness of what Covenant had done until later. Maybe the fact that I read LFB at age 13 meant I was a tad naive about the concept of rape - I understood what it meant intellectually, but not emotionally.

Hmm. I know they warn of spoilers in the Last Chronicle forum, but not in this one. I suppose I blundered by asking for specifics.

Spoiler

OMG! Superman is Clark Kent!!!

matrixman wrote:

I honestly don't recall what kind of reaction I had to Covenant's rape of Lena the first time I read LFB.

I read it as part of an engrossing story, but I don't think I grasped the awfulness of what Covenant had done until later. Maybe the fact that I read LFB at age 13 meant I was a tad naive about the concept of rape - I understood what it meant intellectually, but not emotionally.

I read LFB around the same age, so I couldn't tell you how I really felt about it then either... but I CAN tell you how I reacted to Covenant's feelings in TIW when I read it for the first time, I was completely disgusted. Having just reread the First Chronicles again, I'm affected by both heinous acts almost equally now.

I read the chronicles first when I was around 16, and I almost stopped with the rape scene. The only reason why I was able to go on is because I viewed certain events afterwards not only as punishments for TC, but as a direct consequence of the rape. As I've reread the series, my outlook has changed, and though my attitude towards the crime of rape has changed from disgust to an outright call of crucifixtion of the offender, I am always somehow able to forgive TC.... to me, this is the principle reason why I view SRD as one of the greatest authors around, since he convinced me to forgive a crime that I usually view as damn near unforgivable. Funny how such things work

On a related note, when I give someone the series to read and don't mention this, they don't seem to be too affected by it and continue to read, while the people I warn about it (in a misguided attempt to brace them) never seem to get to that point...curious...