Kevin's Watch

How much of it do we actually see of beauty?
Most of the first book. About half, actually, of the second book.
And that's it in the firs two trilogies.
Andelain in the second trilogy has a dark heart in many ways.
We've seen something we've been more TOLD is beautiful than we've actually seen that beauty.
Don't know why it occurs to me that that may be the way out of this for SRD. To create the beauty we've been told about, to see it, instead of lamenting its loss.
I know we've seen the land not under a pall in the final series, but we don't get to FEEL the beauty the way we did in LFB and ILW.
Kevin's Dirt and all.

Lots of people have become attached to the Chronicles because of the beauty of the Land. But, as you pointed out, Donaldson stops delivering it early on. I was hoping the Final Cs would restore it to us; alas. I think Donaldson dropped the ball there, or missed an opportunity, or something like that.

I agree with Wayfriend. But I think it was intentional, at least with the 1st and 2nd Chrons. After showing us the beauty of the Land, SRD gave us something broken.

I also hoped that the LC would return us to some of the former glory of the first couple books, but in retrospect, I don't think that's a narrative flaw. I'd be happy if this return to beauty happens at the end of the LC. But we'll have to wait and see. It may not happen. Or it may happen in a way we don't expect.

With that said, I don't think we were ever supposed to think that this fantasy land was more beautiful than special (or even mundane) places here on earth. Rather, I think that the "beauty vs scenery" comparison has more to do with our ability to see beauty, than the inherent beauty of the Land. The Chrons are (in part) about opening our eyes. There is plenty of beauty in this world--and it might be even more beautiful given the fact that it's not magical, but entirely mundane.

Yellowstone is awesome. So are many places here in Kentucky. Don't sell reality short based on some fictional ideal. See the ideal inherent in reality.

I've always found the beauty of the Land in its people's devotion to it; the Lords, the Waynhim, the Forestals. Much more so than physical descriptions of its beauty, the actions and faith of those that defend it make the case for it being a beautiful place.

The Land's beauty, as manifested in different ways in The Illearth War, was definitely a big reason why that book had such a profound impact on me. The lore-crafted beauty of Revelwood. The natural wonder of Glimmermere. The majesty of Melenkurion Skyweir, plus its astounding subterranean world as revealed by Amok. Even Garroting Deep had a kind of terrible, wrathful beauty. Fantastic stuff.

And yes, like rdhopeca says, it's also in the way the people respond to all that beauty and the magic in it.

I've always been drawn the land of the Land, and what lies beneath. "There is magic graven in every rock." (Love the fact that Anele spoke to the rocks, and how his psychosis changed due to what surface he was standing on). Hurtloam blew me away-so very glad to see it back, or back in time, in FR.

"What lies beneath" is SO powerful, Earthpower, EarthBlood, even the banes buried deep, where the Elohim dive deep, the frick'n fact that the insides of the planet are a coiled sleeping WORM! The power the Land itself gives to the Raynhyn, ocrest, staffs, lianar (I could go on)-the health! And then all that neat stuff on the surface that matrixman was talking about.

SRD has been yanking our chains the entire time. He has enacted a glamour to camoflage the true nature of the Land. In truth.....it looks like a moonscape in Death Valley....no beauty .....so Beauty and Truth didn't pass utterly from the Earth.....it was never there in the first place !!!!!!!

matrixman wrote:The Land's beauty, as manifested in different ways in The Illearth War, was definitely a big reason why that book had such a profound impact on me. The lore-crafted beauty of Revelwood. The natural wonder of Glimmermere. The majesty of Melenkurion Skyweir, plus its astounding subterranean world as revealed by Amok. Even Garroting Deep had a kind of terrible, wrathful beauty. Fantastic stuff.

And yes, like rdhopeca says, it's also in the way the people respond to all that beauty and the magic in it.

Same here....Thas probably the main reason why The Illearth War has always been my favorite of the series, it is the last of the lands Beauty besides the Survival of Andelain through the Long Winter and the Sunbane.

There are alot of Beautiful places right here in the "real" world, that is if you can get out of the over polluted over Crowded Cities to view one of these places.(for all of you living in one of these places of Beauty, Congrats) Without the Beauty of our Own World, writers would have nothing of which to base the beauty of their own stories.

Now... I have read Runes and I am on my Second readthrough of it right now... Linden is not in the land yet, but from what i remember does the land not go back to beauty? Kevins Dirt is there but the people of the land cannot see it, so the Landscapes should be back to new Beauty right? so the land is healed but the magic has been denied to any that could use it by the Masters, is that why the feeling of the lands beauty is only half of what it was in the original series? I do feel that something is missing... part of me thinks it is the Lords absence which is leaving that gap, and not only the lords absence but the lack of beautiful possibilities through earthpower due to the Masters Playing it safe by not passing the history of the land to its inhabitants... its taken on the feeling of Scenery vs Beauty as was mentioned by someone before me.

I've always thought the beauty wasn't in the Land itself [though there is that too] but [related to what Z said (btw, are Z and Malik same person? been gone a while, but the similarity seems crazy if not)] because so many damn ordinary people could see it, feel it. And I never thought it was gone, so much as under assault, and part of the beauty was that people were willing to spend there lives to f*ing FIGHT for it...not for profit, power, knowledge, ideology...whatever...they fight because it is what it is, and they KNOW what it is...even in the real world, very few people can kill/destroy what they really know, in a personal and real sense is good/beautiful.
[now that I think, that sounds way like "beauty is truth/truth beauty..but I'll let it stand.]

Zarathustra wrote: With that said, I don't think we were ever supposed to think that this fantasy land was more beautiful than special (or even mundane) places here on earth. Rather, I think that the "beauty vs scenery" comparison has more to do with our ability to see beauty, than the inherent beauty of the Land. The Chrons are (in part) about opening our eyes. There is plenty of beauty in this world--and it might be even more beautiful given the fact that it's not magical, but entirely mundane.

Yes. Recall Covenant's awe as he gained healthsense in LFB; the Land had seemed beautiful to him before, but healthsense is what did it for him. So, gorgeous as the Land is, it is the capacity to see is what makes it special beyond anything we can know here.
OTOH, healthsense is Land-given; it is part of its bounty. So I would certainly include it in Land's beauty! Hence the Land is beautiful beyond compare, when not crippled by Sunbane/Dirt.

The beauty of the Land may not lay in it's physical appearance but it may be the encompassing parts that makes up it's whole.

The loss of beauty in the Land is essential to the story, I think. In the first chronicles, it represented fighting for a life that seemed to have lost all its worth. In the second, it's about sacrificing for a life that has been perverted (by getting back something broken).

I'm not sure how the Last Chronicles fits in this scheme (Though I'm certain acceptance is in there!)

Blackhawk wrote:

matrixman wrote:The Land's beauty, as manifested in different ways in The Illearth War, was definitely a big reason why that book had such a profound impact on me. The lore-crafted beauty of Revelwood. The natural wonder of Glimmermere. The majesty of Melenkurion Skyweir, plus its astounding subterranean world as revealed by Amok. Even Garroting Deep had a kind of terrible, wrathful beauty. Fantastic stuff.

And yes, like rdhopeca says, it's also in the way the people respond to all that beauty and the magic in it.

Same here....Thas probably the main reason why The Illearth War has always been my favorite of the series, it is the last of the lands Beauty besides the Survival of Andelain through the Long Winter and the Sunbane.

Yes, it's why I found The Power That Preserves so tough to get through. So much of the Land's vitality was crippled by Foul's winter.
Just as importantly, the people of the Land were damaged or met a bitter end. You can start at Triock and just go down the list.

There are alot of Beautiful places right here in the "real" world, that is if you can get out of the over polluted over Crowded Cities to view one of these places.(for all of you living in one of these places of Beauty, Congrats) Without the Beauty of our Own World, writers would have nothing of which to base the beauty of their own stories.

Absolutely.
But I will say that it took something as extraordinarily fantastic and well-written as TCTC to open my eyes to the beauty of our "real" natural world.

Now... I have read Runes and I am on my Second readthrough of it right now... Linden is not in the land yet, but from what i remember does the land not go back to beauty? Kevins Dirt is there but the people of the land cannot see it, so the Landscapes should be back to new Beauty right? so the land is healed but the magic has been denied to any that could use it by the Masters, is that why the feeling of the lands beauty is only half of what it was in the original series? I do feel that something is missing... part of me thinks it is the Lords absence which is leaving that gap, and not only the lords absence but the lack of beautiful possibilities through earthpower due to the Masters Playing it safe by not passing the history of the land to its inhabitants... its taken on the feeling of Scenery vs Beauty as was mentioned by someone before me.

Scenery vs. Beauty is a very good way to compare the Land as it appears in the different Chronicles.
Again, the "lack of beautiful possibilities through Earthpower" sums up TPTP just as well for me. While The Illearth War was overflowing with possibilities.
But in that respect how can I say what I want to say about FR since you haven't read it yet?
(And yet here you are posting in the AATE forum! )

Not too long ago, I dreamed I was in Andelain. Just for that, plus some other factors involved, it was probably the greatest dream I've ever had. One of them, anyway.

I've had a few dreams involving the Land (as described in the "Donaldsonian Dreams" thread).
However, those dreams were bleak and morbid, rather than beautiful or happy.
I guess that tells me the Chronicles tend to take my mind to dark places. (What a surprise...)